hello everyone. I have been a lurker for awhile. I am a former Special Agent, FBI, state prosecutor, and retired trial court judge. I am a firearms enthusiast (primarily a Glock shooter) but do own a couple of Sig 516’s, which I like very much. Now I am interested in acquiring a DMR/SPR 5.56 rifle. I have looked at several obvious choices (FN, DD, Centurion Arms, etc.) and am wondering what some of you who have more experience in the rifle arena might suggest. I have a reasonable, but not unlimited, budget. I have an Accupower 1x8 scope on a Geissele mount on one of my 516’s which I plan to use on this new rifle if I get one. So, wondering what you would suggest/recommend?
KAC makes a nice 18" DMR’ish SR15. Full disclosure - I’m double-fisting the KAC cool-aid, so take that for what it’s worth…
https://www.knightarmco.com/4696/shop/commercial-firearms/sr-15-lpr-mod-2
https://www.knightarmco.com/12013/shop/commercial-firearms/sr-15-e3-lpr-mod-2-m-lok
Precision rifle to me is where “off the shelf” starts to be much less attractive. In this SPR etc…realm there is no equivalent to a Colt 6920. Precision rifles are a niche weapon and most precision shooters are a lot more particular about the specifics of their guns-barrel, twist rate/profile, type of steel, chamber, grip, trigger, butt, rail, muzzle device etc…
Need a little more info to make recommendations. For example do you want a rifle to take from your car to a shooting lane for long range or do you want something that you can carry around for long periods in a day to make long distance shots on remote targets?
Do you want an SPR (clone) to use so you can get a feel for how the U.S. Military employed them or do you want something that leverages the best of modern updates for personal achievement?
Without knowing what you consider a “reasonable” budget it’s a little hard to guess. There’s the original (https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-mk12-mod-0-gen-ii-upper-receiver-prod109118.aspx). If that’s a little high, BCM offers several variations (https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SPR-Mk-12-Upper-Receiver-Half-Groups-s/131.htm). Any of these can simply be mated to the lower of your choice.
Or assemble your own…
I’d say grab a BCM 18 inch upper, handguard of your choice. Add a nice trigger…And run 69-77 Grn pills to see what it likes. Mine loves 75 Grn HPBT.
If I was trying to build the best SPR upper I could, I’d buy a LMT MLR MRP with either the 16" or 18" 5R SS barrel options.
Lot of good options I have a stainless 16 inch mid BCM that after some teething issues has worked out well. Also have a 20 inch white oak armament barrel built on a sons of liberty gunworks upper and lower. Both guns shoot wonderful and didn’t break the bank. Once you build one there a blast to shoot
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If I were starting from scratch I’d do this: Centurion MK12.
I dream about one of those from time to time
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I have similar experience except my White Oak is 18". I have around 1500 rounds on my BCM SS410 upper. I found a load pretty quickly with 75gr Hornady match. 69gr SMK was decent too. With the White Oak, accuracy has been more than acceptable with plenty of groups in the .7 - .9 MOA range but so far I haven’t quite found the combo to match the accuracy of the BCM.
The upside of building is you to pick every component exactly has you want it.
The bcm confounded me for a bit. Twice I was ready to sell it. It was grouping around 2 moa no matter what I was shooting. Then after about 400 rounds it’ started improving now it just flat out shoots. Running a 1-4 optic now and glad I didn’t sell it. The white oaks been a beast from the beginning. Also have a bcm with a hammer forged 16 inch upper, not even free floated. Actually shot that rifle in local dmr and precision matches before I got the other two. That ones a fantastic shooter. But I’m getting off topic sorry.
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Your Honor,
First and foremost, thank you for finally posting, and welcome to the board. Secondly, A little more information might get you a slightly more suitable answer. If you plan on shooting more expensive ammunition, or loading your own, you will find a large difference in the outcome of your targets. Or perhaps I should say, the opportunity to shoot better is increased.
I’ll throw this info out there in a generic manner, which will no doubt have a few people argue or get upset that I’m not being scientific, but my real world activities (civ/ LE/ MIL), as well as that of an instructor bear this out.
Ammunition that is good enough to shoot a 3" group at 100 yards isn’t going to shoot much better than a 3" group at 100 yards. Regardless of what some people like to post, their bottom of the barrel ammo doesn’t magically get better just because of a decent barrel. What a decent barrel does is keep the group around 3" at 100 yards IF the shooter does their part. Using that same ammunition, a low quality barrel with that low quality ammo might lend itself to more of a 4 or 5" group IF the shooter does their part. Quite often that may be the result of fliers that appear from out of no where.
Taking the above, we can look at the ammunition and barrel as objects which work in harmony, and not independently. Good ammunition, along with a good barrel work much in the same way. Good ammo that is capable of 3/4" groups can only achieve those groups if the barrel is equally good. Again, this is assuming the shooter is capable of stacking rounds on target to that degree of accuracy.
With the above out of the way, we need to figure out what sort of shooting you plan on doing, as well as an honest assessment of what sort of ammo you will be purchasing.
Hello your Honor! I purchased a DDM4V7 Pro upper and I am very pleased with it. It is an 18" heavy barrel that is chrome lined and has a 1/7 twist. It also has a rifle length gas system and a muzzle brake to reduce recoil and muzzle climb.
I wanted a rifle that was reliable so the rifle length gas system will help extend bolt life. The strength to weight barrel profile is very stable in use and it shoots very softly too. Fast follow ups are easy. It does not get hot as fast as a regular govt profile barrel either.
The weight and brake make for a smooth shooter but it comes at the price of tremendous muzzle blast. It is loud.
Many reviews state with good ammo it is capable of sub MOA performance too. I have used no premium loads, just XM193 and MK262
so I cannot speak to ultimate accuracy…but it is consistent.
It is mounted on a DDM4V7 lower with a Giessele SSA-E trigger and I have a VCOG for the optic. It all comes together to make a rugged, reliable rifle that is great for many tasks. The whole ensemble meets my use criteria perfectly.
You could just as easily make one. Good barrel, G rail, G trigger, and good ammo.
Unless you want storebrought. Me I like Lilja barrels and my URX II rail.
ETA I stick to 16”
This is as “DMR/SPR” as I get.
BCM Lower/SSA-E/LMT SOPMOD stock/2.5-10X44 Vortex Viper
This is the URG: BCM SS410™ 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group with PRI Gen III 12"
Shoots great, very accurate @100yds
Welcome to the board, good sir!
Are you intetested in assembling your own, or buying off the shelf? The former can be extremely rewarding, and not terribly expensive.
I look at a SDM/SPR as something that’s a tack driver, but light enough to hump around all day.
Concur.
How far do you want to shoot? What are your expectations regarding accuracy? What type of ammo/projectiles do you plan on using? Do you want to build your weapon, or do you prefer to buy an off the shelf unit? I think more information is needed here.
Welcome to M4C. If the cash allows and you want an 18” rifle, get a KAC LPR. If you want a 16” recce, the LMT MRP would be my pick. I own an LMT and have shot the KAC. They are equal in the accuracy department. The KAC shoots smoother.