My two year old Wheeler vise from Midway has pretty much had it. OK, it pretty much never really had it for what it cost.
Won’t close square anymore (adjustment is useless) which keeps the action block from properly clamping the upper receiver along the top which allows it to pivot but not rotate, if you know what I mean.
There’s the ridiculously expensive vise at Brownells and there’s the Chinese junk at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Gotta be something in between, right? Or do you guys who do this kind of stuff for a living consider a vise a major expense rather than a disposable item?
Any recommendations would be gratefully appreciated. Meanwhile I’ll be checking Enco and MCS although maybe that’s a crap shoot too.
Cool, didn’t know Starrett even sold vises. Did they get a lot of use and stand up to it well?
Found the Wilton 10016 (400S) at McMaster-Carr for about four times as much but it appears to be indestructible. Weighs sixty one pounds though, prolly overkill. :eek:
The original Starrets stood up to about ~30 years of beatings from students before wearing out. I am not quite so sure about the Newer ones. One thing I do know is try to get a vise with jaw inserts that are not all that “aggressive”. That, or try to get one with interchangeable/multiple jaw inserts. Also if you have access to wheel weights,or any other “pureish” lead, make yourself a few vise jaw inserts to keep form marring the finish on your work.
Allot of the time I use “drop in” plywood inserts to protect the work in the vise. Some of the protectors/inserts have vinyl, or soft leather applied to them for further protection.
If you plan on doing allot of pounding/beating I would suggest finding and employing a “small” anvil, or a 1-2’ section of railroad track. The small flat “anvil” section on the top back of most vises is a joke and is/was never engineered or intended to be beaten on hard, or used heavily. If used hard it will almost always fatigue and crack. Underneath the “anvil” section it is almost always hollow and ill supported, it is basically a through hole, or thread passage.
Also when finished with your vise for the day do NOT snug the jaws tight against each other. Just leave them be with some bit of b “breathing room” (1/8"+) between the jaws. Most if not all common vises are made VIA casting processes. Castings are subject to stress fractures if left unevenly supported/stressed, or under load. Over time on many moderately to heavily used vises left with the jaws tightened, or snugged together for an inordinate period of time / habitually - the thinner part of the “traveling” jaw (the tapered downward under the working face of the vise jaw) will over time (sometimes short - sometimes long) develop a fatal crack/fracture and the whole top portion of the traveling jaw will “pop” off under load - or just fall away. I have probably seen this happen 20+ times.
I have seen some good Wilton vises in the past couple of years. One thing I learned about looking at import vises (yes even the Starrets are imported - just built to better standards) is if it has an abundance of “heavy” or thickly slathered on paint it probably has a really rough or piss poor casting underneath. I once bought a pair of really nice looking “Allied” vises (one 5" wide jaw model, and 1 8" jaw model). At first appearance they looked great. After heating a few things up using the smaller one (the big one is in storage) big bondo like chinks of paint started flaking off. Every time I whacked something in the vise big insanely thick pieces of paint/filler would come loose. I’ll bet after all was said and done that vise lost a good pound of filler and it looked like shit. I still use it, but If I had seen the vise in its “actual” naked condition I would have certainly passed on it.
Incredibly useful info, thanks very much. I always leave a vise where I was using it or closed down a bit but never with the jaws touching. Must’ve been taught that a long time ago, thanks for the explanation on that. Leaving the traveling jaw hanging out there’s probably not a good idea either since it puts a large overturning moment on the channel and ways.
I have a couple sets of leather pads cut for the jaws as caps as well as a pair of magnetic caps lined lined with a fiber reinforced rubber of some kind. A set of bronze caps is sitting in a saved cart at Brownells, I should probably add the lead shims they carry as well - I’ve not found lead vise caps that I recall, will have to go back through Enco, MSC, & McMaster-Carr. Brownells rosin has come in handy with barrel vise jaws. Hadn’t thought about making some caps out of wood but just lately I saw this called out in the TM for holding a lower while applying torque to a rifle extension tube. Thanks for the tips.
Looking at the Starrett Utility Vises on-screen they look pretty much like a typical import vise. Unlikely they’d be built to the quality Starrett was known for thirty years ago, sad to say.
Good point about the anvil. I don’t use mine much. Heavy pounding is taken by a bench block on the floor or the desk/bench. I’ve seen some Wilton vises built with a very heavy anvil that forms the stationary jaw of the vise it’s so big, definitely has to be to avoid the problem of most being weakly supported above the thru-hole for the screw. Never thought about finding a small anvil or RR track for that matter, will have to look around. Where, I’ve no idea.
Another poster mentions Columbia which is the only other brand listed as heavy duty machinist’s vises in the MSC book but I haven’t had a chance to look over them yet so they’re next on the list. Wilton says they’re made in the USA and it appears each one pictured in their on-line catalog is labeled as such. Not that this is a blanket guarantee of quality but the paint in the pics looks like a hammertone finish, at least on the top quality series of vises.
It’d be great to find a place around DFW where this quality of vise could be seen on the shelf but I wouldn’t know where to start looking. A top quality Wilton or Columbia with a four inch wide jaw runs about five hundred or so at McMaster-Carr, quite a bit to drop sight unseen. OTOH, spending less is probably a lot riskier given the product would more likely be finished with plenty of bondo and tons of paint. Buy once, cry once applies to scopes and vises too I suppose, especially if you’re gonna abuse the heck out of 'em.
i do not recall the name of my vise, but i got it from a Military base in one of those auction sell off of old equipment, it weighs about 75 pounds has 6" jaws, 6" throat, opens to 10", has removable “pipe jaws”, swivels and the anvil head is sturdy enough to beat out a horseshoe i have had it nearly 40 years and i would bet it is closing in on it’s 100th birthdate
when getting a gunsmithing vise get a BIG one, heavy duty construction swivel base, “soft” jaw over lays (i made mine from 1/8" sheet brass and annealed them) “pipe jaws” are an option, but most good vises have them cast in the body, i prefer the removable ones, as i have made other tools to insert into the P.J. cavity’s to hold various jobs.
Nice mechanic’s vise. Tough to know if a rectangular or circular cross section ram will stand up to more applied jaw pressure. Here’s a thread from '06 that indicates Wilton is one of the few USA mfg left standing and the prices I’ve seen are not out of line. Consideration is given to mechanic’s vises as the open channel can be blown clean with shop air but I have to think the sealed Wilton circular channel machinist’s vise with its high precision clearance would have a lot less slop in the jaws as you’d close them down on the workpiece. Someone notes both Columbia and Wilton are owned by the same holding company that owns Jet and someone else, dunno if that’s a good thing. Anyway, here’s the link:
I think I’m going to order the Wilton 10016 (400S) from McMaster-Carr and just close my eyes when I click on the submit order button. Where the heck am I gonna find a place for a sixty+ pound vise? This oughta be interesting…
Thanks for the link. Googling Columbia machinist’s vise led me to the link above as well as a number of other helpful ones. I never did find a url for the company. Google Wilton vise though and bang, top of the list.
Seems to be the consensus among machinists. I wonder if anyone still makes pedestal stands for vises like the old days. Would look kinda funky bolted down to the slab through the carpet in the spare bedroom and the wife might not be real happy with it but I don’t think she can hold onto a receiver well enough to rebarrel it.
An older vise’d be great but I don’t know enough to judge the value or condition of one much less put one right. Pride in craftsmanship, what an anachronism these days, eh?
The Wilton heavy duty machinist’s vises don’t have pipe jaws although another similar line does and they’re removable. Never thought about their use with tooling for other jobs, hmmmm.
That’s weird. The Wilton 400S at McMaster says it has removable pipe jaws but searching 400S on the Witon site brings up the 10016 which doesn’t. Gotta sort this one out. MSC lists the 10016 at $753 and McMaster lists the 400S at $483, somthing ain’t right.
Um, never mind. Too early to read a catalog, all them dang line items just run together… :rolleyes:
The 10016 is the 400S, first number is the stock number, second is the model number. And McMaster has two subsections on the page, one without and one with pipe jaws while they picture only the latter. Duh.
I like the double rotation capability, pretty handy. Tough call on a five hundred vise but compared to the cost of eight ARs built lately it kinda pales in comparison especially when optics are included. And everything was going along so well…
I also use a Wilton vise that I purchased about 4 months ago. I used it a few times while I was home and it worked great. As a matter of fact I think gotm4 recommended it. I bought mine at either Lowe’s or Home Depot.
Not. Unfortunately. Not to be found in stock anywhere in the vicinity. Will have to check a few more stores and then order online for in-store pickup. Figures. Fifth Monday of the week, true to form.
i have had it nearly 40 years and i would bet it is closing in on it’s 100th birthdate 