Don’t know which CS they use (never asked). The owner did mention that it was the most expensive CS he could buy.
I would change CS springs out at around 5K. I would change out cheap SS springs at around 3-4K.
C4
Thanks Grant!
This is why you’ve become my “go-to guy” for all things carbine related. Every time I call you I get an education that blows out a lot of the stuff I thought I knew.
Have read that before and is a good data sheet. One of the key points in that sheet, is that some some springs can lose much of their “life” with just 350 compressions! I have seen with some new AR springs and it is shocking to see the spring lose so much of its length so fast.
C4
here is some pictures of action springs. Every one is new and every one is different. First pic spring on the right is a spring from a Colt LEO rifle, SS I assume. The one on the left is from a older preban Colt Govt. carbine. It has a more yellowish tint to it. I assume its not SS (stainless).
next is two from a gunshow, the black looking one is supposed to be a CMT but I dont think it is. CMT should be SS and this dont look SS to me. The other on the left looks like a regular metal spring.
and here they are all lined up, every one is a different length and they are all new. The preban carbine spring only has about 50 rounds on it.
Are the springs in the Army m4s like the springs in the LEO Colt?
How do the lengths of these new springs compare to the standard that Submariner posted?
All that needs to be done is take the picture with a ruler alongside the springs. Buying a ruler is more cost-effective than arbitrarily picking a round count at which to replace the action spring.
While few may have been talking about action springs and reliability, the TM cited has been around since the 80’s with M4 revisions added in the 90’s. RTFM as Rickover used to say.
“Snob Appeal”: the fallacy of attempting to prove a conclusion by appealing to what an elite or a select few (but not necessarily an authority) in a society or community thinks or believes.
what kind of spring would you find in a real m4 carbine, stainless???
Would have a Colt spring.
It wouldn’t be CS so that pretty much leaves stainless.
thanks
good normal spring loses 10% of size but oh well a aac-ss buffer/spring sysem is in her now!!
Personally, I would rather buy outrageously-priced ammunition than spend money on replacing a spring which performs satisfactorily. The minimum spec is there for a reason. If the minimum wasn’t good enough, it wouldn’t be the minimum. (You can, of course, build in a fudge factor and replace before the stated spec, just so YOUR minimum let’s you sleep nights.)
The problem with that approach is you take a chance on the spring replacement no longer being preventative maintenance and becoming corrective maintenance.
Sounds like it needs to be an R-check - every X,000 rounds, remove the spring and measure it’s length.
Jim
Is that a pre-underway or post-underway check?
I think Subs does it everytime he cleans. Not a bad way of doing it. I don’t clean my guns that often, so I might miss it.
According to the Manual, the check is quarterly.
I do it quarterly or as required as in whenever I clean it. It only becomes corrective if I measure and it is out-of-spec low. If it gets within a quarte inch of spec, I’ll replace it as a preventive measure.
ETA: Both quarterly and every XXXX rounds are periodic. Keeping a gun book, it probably makes more sense to check every, say, 2000 rounds since the spring should not degrade over 91 days if it hasn’t been fired during that time. The key element here is check and then take the decision to replace from spares.
Calendar-based maintenance is great, if you shoot about the same every quarter. If you don’t then rounds-based is better IMO.
I know the Surface Navy went to run-time based maintenance on gas turbines, like the aviators had been doing forever, in the late 90s because it didn’t make sense to do calendar-based maintenance when underway schedules varied so much.
There is a flaw in your thinking. The issue with SS springs is that they lose length JUST sitting in your weapon. This is why CS is the clear choice for springs as they don’t suffer from this issue like SS springs do.
You spend extra coin on Colt AR’s because they follow the TDP and do things correctly. You then cheap out on springs when there are better options out there. I guess its kind of like buying a Porche and then putting General tires and water downed gas in it. Make sense? Didn’t think so.
C4
What is your source of information for this statement?