Both myself and my dad are real close to finding and filing the paperwork for our own SBRs, but we’ve been struggling with deciding to go the Form 1 or Form 4 route. I was thinking more Form 4, under the impression it would keep my information off of the gun. A little Google-action later, and I come up with this:
Specifically, here’s the letter the man received from the ATF:
Let me repeat the last paragraph for emphasis.
While our advice that “there is no requirement for you to add any additional markings to the receiver after the approved SBR modifications are completed” is correct, we were remiss in advising you that the maker is required to identify the firearm with his or her name, city, and state. These markings, as provided in § 479.102, may be placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel. Accordingly, you can place your name, city, and state on the barrel of the firearm.
The ATF is saying they were remiss in advising that the maker is required to identify the firearm with his or her name, city, and state. I’m correct in my understanding that this means they were negligent in advising that you, the maker of the NFA item, to add your information to the weapon?
I see a lot of folks with markings on their guns, but if I’m reading that letter correctly and I don’t have to add anything to the gun if I’m altering an existing firearm into an SBR…
Don’t know as I’m not a lawyer. I mark mine, I highly doubt I’ll ever get into trouble for marking it. I abbreviate my Trusts name and then put the city/state. I also put exactly what I engraved on the lower on the Form 1 where ‘additional description’ is specified. That way there’s no question that it’s the lower on the Form 1 even though it’s redundant since the original manufacturer name and serial number are on it as well.
Oh, I know the engraving can’t hurt, but if I can not do it I’d be tickled to death that I didn’t have to mark up my weapon unnecessarily.
The third paragraph states that you should use the existing serial number and adopt the current manufacturer markings. Which means… if I were to convert the weapon to an SBR, I would adopt the existing information on the receiver in lieu of my own?
I read that as basically saying: “You don’t have to mark the receiver, but you DO have to mark the firearm with your name, city and state somewhere. You can choose to mark the frame, receiver or barrel.”
I chose the receiver, as that’s the only portion of the weapon with the serial number that corresponds to my Form 1.
“Remiss” means they did not, due to carelessness, tell him he had to mark his firearm.
You have misread this.
You have to mark any NFA firearm you make and register on a Form 1.
"Sec. 479.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must
legibly identify the firearm as follows:
(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain
additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For
firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002,
the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information
must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information
includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge;
(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when
applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State
(or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer
maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the
firearm;"
Okay, so effectively the ATF is full of it then. Reading the letter would read something quite different than the letter of the law; the letter states that no other markings are necessary beyond those already on it, but the law states that your name (or the name of the trust) and the state where the NFA weapon is made must also be on it. I am correct in reading that I would be the maker if I was the one putting together an SBR, and that makers and manufacturers are separate entities, right?
Actually, that is not what the letter says. It says they they were “remiss” in telling him that he DID have to mark the receiver. It could also be on the barrel, for example. Plain english
Correct. Manufacturers have a license; makers do not.
The Form 1 is an “Application to Make and Register a [NFA] Firearm.”
From 27 CFR 479.11 “Meaning of Terms:”
“Make. This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include
manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such business
under this part), putting together, altering, any combination of these,
or otherwise producing a [NFA] firearm.”
So, any act, such as cutting a barrel, adding a buttstock, swapping an upper, all the way to making from bar stock, which produces a NFA firearm, is considered “making,” when done by a non-licensee.
Here are the regulations that I follow. They are from the BATFE NFA handbook. It says specifically that if the weapon you are registering is an existing firearm then you should use the original manufactuers information and serial number. That comes form section 6.2.1 of the handbook. The following
sections are what I go by 6.1, 6.2, ang 6.2.1. They can be found in the sticky thread at the top of the page ( link at the ATF NFA handbook). I do not mark my weapons, but I guess everyone has to make there own decision.
They told me it has to be marked when I spoke to the WV office (304) 616-4500…they even gave me the specs I needed to follow to make the engraving legal. You should call them like I did to get the info from the horse’s mouth rather than go by a letter you found on the internet that was mailed to someone else back in 2006.
See, you’re not the only one whose said they don’t mark their weapons, either. In fact, it seems there’s quite a number of people who don’t. I realize it’s “only a letter”, and from a couple years ago at that, but that letter is one of a number of things driving an idea that one doesn’t need to mark their own weapons.
If I remember correctly, a similar letter was issued to someone else about two years ago. It was later retracted and a clarification was issued where the manufacturer’s information that were placed on the barrel or the upper receiver does not meet the legal marking requirement because these were not the registered parts of the rifle nor do they have Serial numbers that have to be included on the Form 1.
I don’t know what the big deal about have your information engraved onto the (lower) receiver is. I do know it’s not worth risking time in Federal Prison. JM2CW.
And I don’t think I would trust a letter with another name on it to keep me out of jail. It was to address the original person’s issue not yours. Besides, it seems the ATF changes their collective mind more than my wife…
You could get the info engraved in the trigger guard area. Some engravers do that and it costs a little more…
I don’t have my lowers engraved. There’s nothing on my line 4h. But someone here posted that he felt that line 4h is for “other” markings like “Molon Labe” or some such nonsense.
I don’t object to engraving info. I just don’t feel like getting it done.
That’s your perogative, but your weapons are contraband as a result.
The Federal Regulations on this are quite clear on what markings are required and where they must be placed on the weapon. Failing to meet those requirements, fully, moves your weapon from the “legal” column to the “contraband” column. ATF has been quite clear in the past that once an NFA item becomes contraband, it can never go back to being legal, ever.
Yeah, it may never be an issue for you.
But relying on blind luck or the good graces of ATF isn’t exactly a sound legal strategy.
My papers match my guns exactly, as I’ve said a hundred times. If the Govt wants to get me, they’re going to do it regardless of some silly engravings.
The interpretation of the law can go either way. I engrave, my choice as to the way I read the law.
FWIW if an ATF agent is scrutinizing your lowers engraving or lack of engraving on your SBR lower you probably have other WAY more important problems that have gotten the attention of the ATF in the first place.
FWIW if an ATF agent is scrutinizing your lowers engraving or lack of engraving on your SBR lower you probably have other WAY more important problems that have gotten the attention of the ATF in the first place.
Robb I agree with you on this point.
I will also say that the big problem with ATF is there are to many opinions. The individual examiners should have no opinion about what is or is not correct/ legal. As a little back ground on me. I am a police officer, and I have worked part time for a class 3/ SOT dealer for about ten years. The examiner that we have is a female. I do not recall her name, but she said the receivers do not need to be marked. Now is that to say this is THE way, not necessarily. The way that I read the regs there is no requirement to mark my receiver unless I am making the weapon from scratch. Now as I said before YOU have to do what you believe is right.
On another point, the same examiner told us how to get a multi caliber multi barrel length form approved. She also sent us an example of how to fill out a multi caliber/ barrel length form. I have one in my hand right now for the doubters
