upon searching for what makes a recce a recce, Ive come up with “an accurized 16 inch barrel” what exactly does this mean?
“Accurized” is kind of a misnomer, since it implies that something is done to a standard barrel to make it more precise.
It should really be called a “Precision” or “Match Grade” barrel, in the sense that they are not only more precision oriented than a standard barrel, but are manufactured from different materials with more precise methods and held to a higher precision standard.
I’ve kind of felt that over time now the term “Recce” gets tossed around to encompass more and more 16" carbines. I’ve seen on the net several times when people refer to what seems to be basic 16" guns as Recce’s as if it’s become a generic term for carbine.
To me a “Recce” is more of a set standard of carbine that is built entirely around a 16" Match grade barrel specifically designed to wring out as much accuracy potential as possible. All the while maintaining a convenient overall length for carrry and general patrol type use. I mean this as opposed to a gun that’s built as a standard of just size (common carbine).
Anyway that’s what it means to me. Every other board member might disagree.
im retarded but i thought a “recce” was a recon/sniper based 18" SPR.
the DSM was a 16" that was accurized? the logic was to prevent the “sniper” of the group from becoming a high prize target.
FYI, from the all-knowing oracle that is Wikipedia:
SEAL Recon Rifle
Built in-house by U.S. Navy SEAL Team armorers, and later by the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane Division (often referred to as NSWC-Crane or “Crane”), the SEAL Recon Rifle was developed to provide SEAL snipers with a portable, lightweight system with greater lethality than a standard M4 carbine. The SEAL Recon Rifle is sometimes referred to as the “Recce Rifle”.
When production of this rifle was turned over to NSWC-Crane, U.S. Army funding and concepts were apparently incorporated into the program (there is some confusion as to the exact events). The SEAL Teams were apparently disappointed with the performance of the resulting Mk 12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR), and convinced the program managers at Crane to return to the original specifications. Production of “Recon Rifles” on the original pattern is progressing now according to several sources
According to Wes Grant of M.S.T.N. a premiere small arms builder, these weapons were initially built in-house with the only specifications being the ability to shoot any 5.56 x 45 mm cartridge in inventory (at the time this included the first iterations of the 77-grain (5 g) Mk 262 Mod 0 cartridge), and that the weapon have a barrel 16 inches (406 mm) in length.
The barrel blanks are made by Lilja Precision and then chambered by Compass Lake. They have a 1:8 in (203 mm) twist and are stainless steel. They have a unique heavy barrel profile, starting with 0.980 in (25 mm) in diameter for the first 2.60 in (66 mm) of length, then narrowing down to 0.850 (22 mm) in diameter, 0.750 in (19 mm) in diameter underneath the front sight block, and 0.725 in (18 mm) in diameter to the muzzle. The barrels have the Knight’s Armament Company - KAC QD (Quick Detach) flash hider, allowing the mounting of KAC’s QD sound suppressor. A carbine-length gas system is used. These barrels were mated to flat top upper receivers, and retained the fixed front sight/gas block assembly, which would seem to imply that the original iterations were probably just rebarreled M4/A1 type carbines in SEAL inventory.
Beyond this, exact specifications vary. Since they were built in house, they seem to have been accessorized to personal preferences, with fixed (A1 and A2 styles) and retractable butt-stocks. (Original 4-point and improved 6-point Colt stocks, and the Crane/SOCOM/LMT stock are all in use.) Recon rifles built by Crane are reportedly all fitted with a free-float handguard system, the most popular being the Knight’s Armament Co. M4 Match RAS and the LaRue free-float handguards in the longer lengths (which protect the barrel and provide more area to mount tactical accessories). Some operators reportedly use various back-up iron sights (BUISs) by Knight’s, ARMS Inc, and Troy Industries, while others do not. The range of optics used on Recon rifles is wide, with various models by Trijicon (like ACOG TA01, TA31F), Leupold (TS-30A1, TS-30A2), and NightForce in use.
Due to the secretive nature of the end-users, first-hand information and data regarding the Recon rifles seems to be quite rare. How much these specifications have changed with regards to Crane’s “production” weapons is unknown.
Edit:
Maybe the 18" SPR you are thinking of that is associated with military use is the Navy Mk 12?
And in your second statement, I believe you are referring to the Army’s Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (SDM-R). IIRC, the SDM-R is a modified 20" M16 that may have a stainless steel, possibly match grade barrel that allows the SDM to accurately engage targets beyond their standard infantry counterparts. The SDM-R is typically fitted with a lower-power optic, like an ACOG, but otherwise, it still resembles the standard M16, allowing the SDM to blend into the unit.
I could be misremembering, but I think the SDM is not trained as a sniper, but is differentiated from the rest of the squad in that he/she has had more marksmanship training.
This site has some good info to answer your question:
http://www.centurionarms.com/
MSTN also has a lot of info.
There are a bunch of threads on this site about it too - but it might take a while to sift through everything to get the barrel specifics.
The details vary, but the consistent part is a free floated match grade 16" barrel, with day/night zoom optics.
A recce rifle would be more comfortable to patrol with than a Mk12 complete with OPS 12th suppressor hanging off it.
If you want a part-for-part exact replica, it’ll take some extensive reading. If you like the idea of a FF 16" Match upper, quality zoom optic, retractable stock, and good trigger, then make your own pseudo-Recce rifle and be happy with it. A Centurion, MSTN, J&T, BCM, or GTS Operator barrel will work great; LT, DD, KAC, or TROY handguard; and Trijicon TA31, TA11, TA01, Leupold MR/T Mk4’s, Nightforce NXS 1-4x or 2.5-10x, S&B Short Dot, Swarovski Z6i, - or any other variable zoom illuminated reticle optic that has at least 4x magnification is a good base rifle.
bingo:D
MSTN makes the most “to-spec” recce that I know of. As said above, a quality 1-4/6x or 2.5-10x would fill the bill nicely. I’m in the process of replicating an MSTN recce myself.
In my opinion, there are two ways to build a Recce (or any other configuration for that matter). You can build the rifle to meet the specs, or you can build the rifle to meet the mission. For the most part, I’m not a purist. The experts do know what they’re doing and have a reason why they chose a particular part or used a certain configuration. On the other hand, trying to replicate a rifle exactly is a path that can lead to madness.
What this means, in the world of ARs, a 16" barrel is used that’s configured to be as consistent as practical. Bore quality is more strictly controlled and the chamber cut using specifications that have proven to give better shot to shot consistency. Chrome plating of the chamber and bore is not used. Then, the bolt is matched to the barrel assembly. There is a range of headspacing that has been found to produce better shot to shot consistency. Bolts are tried using special headspacing gauges until one is found that falls within that range. This barrel provides the foundation of a good Recce build
The reason I bought my first AR15 was to shoot .223/5.56 through a semi-auto with as much accuracy as possible. Research led to the AR platform.
I chose a 16" barrel as a compromise. I wanted the ballistics of a longer barrel, but I also wanted a rifle that I could carry for extended periods of time without unnecessary weight. A 16" midlength fit the bill. In hindsight, I probably would have been served fine with a 14.5" barrel.
I chose a 1-4x optic as a compromise. I wanted a scope for target identification at distance, but I wanted to stay lighter and have a “quicker” optic than a higher power scope.
Really, my “recce” is a combination of compromises, and I love it.
I did some extensive research on these starting back about 2010. I talked with Wes @ MSTN, who probably knows more than anyone about the platform (minus those at NSW).
In a nutshell, it’s a 16", match-grade barreled upper with a CARBINE gas system and a variable power, mid/high-end optic, mounted on a select-fire lower. Rails change based on what components are available. Optics are usually Nightforce 2.5-10x24 or x32’s - Most run mil/mil configurations, but I got direct confirmation that some SEAL units were running x32’s with medium velocity reticles on their Recces.
There were various early variations of the rifles with different length barrels, gas-systems, etc., but the should be standardized closely to the above now.
While the rifle is more of a concept than a concrete example, it’s important to keep in mind that the entire purpose of the weapon is to maximize accuracy without compromising portability or maneuverability. That means that, at the very least, a Recce needs a stainless match/precision barrel and a precision variable-power optic with no more than a 2-3x power at the low end.
Builds with chrome-lined barrels, ACOGs, RDS/HWS, etc. are not Recce builds. They sacrifice some accuracy for versatility, which actual Recce builds try to maximize.
I have a picture of an actual Recce upper sporting a URX, IIRC. I’ll try to post it when I get home tonight.
I agree that a recce can be a compromise, but I also agree that a true recce MUST have a 16" SS match barrel and 12" free float rail ( kac, pri or larue preferred ) at the least. I’m a clone whore though, just my opinion.
Somehow I forgot to mention High Caliber Sales RECCE, possibly the cream of the crop when it comes to a true recce clone.
Double tap.
As mentioned, here’s some of the images of an actual Recce upper. This particular one was owned by Kevin B. of Knight’s Armament, built by Wes at MSTN. It was an extra from a run of Recce uppers Wes was building for some Navy guys.
Notice the carbine-length gas system.
Their barrels are not Lilja blanks, carbine gas system, or 1/8" twist. They’re simply cut-down 16" Mk 12 barrels with a mid-length gas system. Great barrels, but far from any sort of “true clone.”
Great information! I started to read about the recce rifle concept after I was told that my rifle was reflective of it (whether true or not). I do remember reading somewhere that they used a 16" Carbine gas barrel.
I can’t argue with that. Minus one for me.
You guys do realize you are bumping a three-year-old thread, answering a question for a guy that has not been on this site for four months, right?
Right?
Salty Sourdough, if you are post-whoring to get into the EE, don’t. Don’t do the fast 30 posts thing to sell some stuff here, that will hurt you.