Really [dumb idea] short eye relief ACOG

A few years ago I picked up a compact ACOG TA-50 in a trade, and I’ve been trying to figure out what to do with it ever since. I like everything about the sight except the phenomenally short eye relief: 1.4” What was Trijicon thinking when it designed this 3X scope?

It usually winds up on one of my range rifles, almost always on a Franken-rifle one that has other parts I am experimenting with. It is fine for that purpose, but the short eye relief is a pain. It barely works as a CH scope with a collapsible stock. Mounting it in front of a BUIS (I insist on a backup) takes away at least two slots, usually three, on a flattop. (The only way to shorten the spacing to two slots is to raise the scope and chop the mount, and those mods bring their own problems.) But, what if I placed the ACOG all the way to the rear?

I have two questions: (1) Why did Trijicon design this thing with such short eye relief and without mounting it to the rear as with the TA-31s?

(2) Although I am probably not the first (or the last) to do this, is there anything really wrong with the setup below (backup in front of the ACOG and backward)? Both the Magpul MBUS and the ACOG are boresighted and I plan on taking it to the range in a few days. I would like to get the consensus of the M4C crowd. Being laughed at is not big concern.

Sell it.

Without having tried it, I’d question whether or not the aperture on the MBUS is okay to be used backwards. Pretty sure you’ll have no problem, but it’ll take shooting to confirm that. Front MBUS, backwards is no impact, but that’s not germane.

Does it only fit under the objective if backwards? Since you’d have to ditch the ACOG annyway, that’s the only reason I can think of to mount it backwards.

If you had a mount that required a tool to remove, I’d opine that there’s little point having a BUIS at all. Not the case, here.

Other than that, if the eye relief gigs you, I’d also say to sell/trade it.

How 'bout $50.00 for the ACOG?:wink:

That’s the price for the MBUS. The ACOG costs a bit more.

The TA-50 is not really a problem. It just has shorter eye relief than I would prefer and, once one finds a usable setup (stock length, mount, sight placement on the upper), it’s use in unconventional or expedient shooting positions is less-than-optimal. On the whole, its advantages outweigh its disadvantages, at least for me.

Also, the sight sits upon a shortened ADM QD mount which will permit rapid removal of the sight if necessary. Whether placed before or behind, the flip-up will be unusable, unless the ACOG is removed, due to the 3X magnification.

With this in mind, the anticipated problems with mounting the MBUS (or, BUIS, I’ve tried several from the box o’ spares) forward of the sight are:

  1. Shorter sight radius – obvious.
  2. Many apertures have concave surfaces around the aperture that can distort the image or create a reflective “ring” around the aperture that can be distracting. (NOTE: There does not appear to be a lot of rationality involved here; with normal use, some manufacturers have a concave surface facing the shooter, some do not.)
  3. The increased distance from the shooter’s eye to the rear sight effectively shrinks the size of the aperture. Both apertures are usable, but a small mental adjustment :sarcastic: will be necessary.

Have I missed anything?

As a NTCH shooter I, as in ‘me’, find compact ACOGs work well when mounted on a detachable carry handle.

Damn, that ACOG is so sexy…

LFE: With the exception of this model, I would agree wholeheartedly. If I had not just boresighted the scope for a range trip I would illustrate the problem. (Maybe later this week.)

Simply put, the TA-50 works well in a “normal, right in front of the BUIS” position on a flattop, but my nose better be right on the CH to get optimal eye relief. If I have to assume an odd position, or use an A2 stock or a collapsible stock extended beyond NTCH lengths, then the unforgiving eye relief is a pain. In the position pictured, it is too far back, but just now I am trying to figure out problems with mounting a MBUS/BUIS forward of the optic.

Optimally, I am trying to configure this scope for use with an A1 stock. In the end, I will probably put it back in its “normal” configuration, but I would prefer it to be placed one slot further to the rear. Problem with that? I must either raise the sight about 1/2", or, machine off part of the ACOG base, or, extensively modify the back up sight.

Without trying to open up a can of worms, I will say that I am a bigger fan of this scope than of the TA-33 with chevron.

You could drill another hole (further back from the primary one) in a CH or maybe consider… Hell, I don’t know. Good luck finding a solution(s) and please keep us posted.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1086608

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=244

Might want to take a look at this mount.

It won’t be the prettiest, but it’ll get the ACOG back a little further.

All this to move a sight mount one slot further to the rear.

I put away some of my toys to embark on other projects, and with Spring the ARs returned.

First off, no one in their right mind would do this, so I consider this to be a monument to my pigheadedness. Second, the TA50 ACOG version is not particularly popular, so why bother? Third, there are certain “behind the lines,” “AW ban,” legal considerations that impeded me.

What I wanted was a 3x-ish sight, compact, low weight, suitable for CQB-type exercises, and as low as possible above the bore. Yeah, I know a lot of people love the TA33s, but I owned one for several years and never really liked it (spent a more time hunting for that little chevron and the proper hold-over mark than I care to admit). I sometimes like the big reticules, like this:

I wanted to mount that sucker low, which meant using an American Defense mount. Since it is QD, it solves the “how to get it off without a tool problem.” The only mount lower from my investigations is the original Trijicon mount for the 3.5x or 4x scopes.

Since I was dealing with a fixed stock (“AW ban” state), I elected to go A1 length; anything shorter would be less stable for a rifle with a sight that could go to 300+ meters. In order to get the sight as far back as possible – to get a decent field of view with the horrible 1.4” eye relief available – and still have room for a BUIS (absolute requirement) I had to chop the AD mount and find a BUIS that could be chopped appropriately as well. Or, I could chop the bottom of the ACOG (no way!). Otherwise, I would have to have a QD mountable fixed sight, like the LaRue, and that would mean fumbling around with sights if the ACOG crapped out (not likely, but …) Of course, I could raise the optical sight by 0.5” with a $15 riser. But no. See what I mean about pigheaded?

BUIS? Many designs just don’t accommodate chopping well. Magpul’s MBUS will not accommodate chopping at all. GG&G requires removal of a lot of material. The best options I could find were the Troy BUIS, the DPMS Mangonel, and the Brownells BUIS. Removing material from a Troy seemed like a waste and the mangonel seemed overpriced and overlong. I went with the Brownells, and it looks like this:

Very basic BUIS, one aperture, held up by a fairly good detent. It’s a BUIS.

Chopped the AD mount with my handy milling machine. Oh, wait, I don’t have one. I guess Mr. Dremel did his duty. Too bad I had to lose the flag.

Of course, the bottom of the ACOG sticks out and I must create a shelf in the front of the BUIS to accommodate the excess. (I am not chopping a $900 optical sight to accommodate a $65 iron sight.) It’s pretty messy, but will not show. Where’s the grill paint?

I did this freehand, and even with the surrounding area masked off, it slipped a few times and the bit went straight through the duct tape.

I had to make sure that there was sufficient clearance on the sides of the shelf to allow the ACOG with mount to be “rocked on” from the side. After measuring about 47 times, I determined that the best way to do this was to mount the ACOG where I wanted it and, as I removed material from the BUIS, to occasionally slide the BUIS on the rail up to the limits imposed by the ACOG and mount. If I was able to push the BUIS beyond the point where I needed the locking bar to fit into the appropriate rail slot, then I was almost home. Just cleanup left.

Showing the lineup (where the sight would have been positioned prior to the work):

Now together with the rear of the ACOG in the notch:

Like I wrote, all this to move a sight mount one slot further to the rear.

My thanks to my constant supporter and companion, Mr. Bones.

Never seen that color of dog. Bad ass.

What’s up with the FR leg?

I thought it was pretty cool too. It’s called “brindle” – a tiger stripe pattern. When he was a puppy we had to put a big red collar on him to find him; a very good camo. You see it sometimes on great danes, boxers, pit bulls, and a few others.

Yeah, his right front paw is a bit odd. When he lies down it just flops with the pads up. Double-jointed in that paw? He is also very pigeon-toed, but he is a very functional dog. He was a rescue dog and it could have been from trauma when he was a puppy. He was abused when we got him at two months of age. (He was found in a dumpster.) I hope that the previous owner finds his particular and well-deserved place in Hell.

It’s odd how much .5" eye relief makes. I don’t have any problem at all with the TA-47 whether it’s NTCH or some kama sutra makeshift position.

Not only does the TA47 have greater eye relief, but it has the same tube style as the TA45: the ocular lens is extended further to the rear, so it is closer to the eye than the smaller, shorter TA50.

A TA47 with cross-hairs would be my second choice, but I wanted a 3x.

The TA50 is designed smaller for a reason. It’s perfect on an SMG, or in my case, mounted to the carry handle of an AR. The full size ones look too big mounted on a carry handle, just as I think the compact ones look too small mounted on a flat top. On a carry handle it’s nice and light, not too high that you’d need a cheek riser, and you can still use the iron sights perfectly as is. That, and the eye relief works fine too.

The “right tool for the right job” rule applies yet again…

Pictured build: Bushmaster Patrolman M4 A3, Magpul FDE: Moe hand guards, MIAD pistol grip, UBR stock with enhanced 0.70" butt pad and aluminum strike plate, MOE polymer trigger guard, B.A.D. Lever, 30rd. PMAG with Ranger Plate, BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle and Trijicon ACOG TA50-4. Duracoated in Magpul FDE by your’s truly.