Good on Him!
Freedom/Liberty > Security/Safety
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Ben Franklin
Does anyone really believe the NSA would REALLY quit any of these shenanigans under any circumstance?
I do, but currently on my world it’s open season on feathered pigs.
Yes. But only under circumstances that most people wouldn’t be OK with: Making America’s intelligence agencies completely transparent.
This. What if they come up with some black op and something bad happens with patriot act gone…
I really need to stop reading Tom Clancy.
No way they are going to just lay down. Everyone in the upper levels of gov wants this shit. They got a taste of control like never before. They’ll come up with something really impressive that will totally screw us.
I was kinda in his corner before watching that shit show last night. Several offers were made to modify the program including specific subject targeting instead of mass data collection, he kept beating his chest and did not offer one damn solution. Just kept regurgitating “we should not be in fear, there has to be a better way”.
He is just grandstanding at this point looking for campaign contributions(not that it is going to matter). He has a snowballs chance now, he is not going to get the lib vote, the rank a file GOP or the minority. I suspect he will only be able to pull in 20% against the other contenders. He keeps trying to make this “against the president” ( I think he said that 8 times in his post session interview).
I believe the point was to force the Patriot Act to sunset, so they can have an actual, real discussion and make purposeful changes on a timeline more appropriate than the six hours they had to fix it last night. Of course, this helps him with his campaign with conservatives but I believe that there are a lot of people out there, both sides of the fence, who are getting really tired of the government in their lives and the establishment political class of both parties.
I have no doubt that there is not a magic on/off switch to turn off the mass data collection and that we are still being monitored in the same way today as we were yesterday and the day before that. It will most likely remain that way from here on out regardless of what policy is on the books. It’s way harder to roll back something after it has already been established then to keep something from happening in the first place.
Sorry, that is nonsense.
His “fight” over it started 18 months ago, has not proposed one solution. Would not allow Amendments to be proposed or anything pass the open floor phase . The tight windows last night was generated by his behavior. Like I said, one proposal gave him almost exactly what he wanted a specific targeted subject. I thought it would be considered a victory in his favor, but he kept on with his diatribe. I thought he genuinely wanted to limit in the program but his post session interview told the actual story. His exact words were “this goes directly against the president”, and he regurgitated it 7-8 times during the interview.
The honest truth is he is trying to secure the anti-Obama vote, someone should tell him Obama can’t run for office again…
What is worse is it will eventually pass minus the concessions that could have been made last night.
Here’s what an amendment to it should read (yeah, good luck with that):
-
Snooping should only be used in cases of international terrorism or domestic cases linked to international terrorism. (this should preclude a gun owner at some point in the future being labeled a “terrorist”)
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Snooping would NEVER be admissible as evidence in criminal, non-terrorism (see above) cases such as drugs, murder, robbery, extortion, kidnapping, etc. The use thereof, or attempts to hide the evidence trail, would be punishable by a mandatory 10 year prison sentence for ANYONE in the chain of persons involved. This would include starting at the NSA and all the way down to the prosecuting attorney and any detectives who knew where the evidence came from.
Good on him. The entire thing needs a major restructuring from the ground up, and not via the scope of limited amendments. I have especially enjoyed the rantings of McCain and Graham in particular on the matter thus far
Good for Rand! He is really the only candidate I am half way excited about.
The idea that they need to spy on us to keep us safe from terrorists is garbage.
How so?
Well, if you remember…many times our govt KNEW about certain terrorists long before they struck but they STILL did nothing to stop them. They knew about the 9-11 hijackers and that they were here in expired student visas. They knew about the Ft. Hood shooter long before and did nothing. They also knew about the Boston bombers about 5 years earlier and again…they did not do a damn thing about stopping them.
I also remember reading somewhere that there is currently about 19,000 people from Mid-East countries, here in America on expired student visas and yes…again…they are doing NOTHING about it.
So don’t buy that old crap about “we need to gather and spy to keep you safe” nonsense. It is simply not true!
The absolute dogpile shitshow that is being directed towards Paul is like watching the cockroaches come out of the woodwork.
“If you like your 4th Ammendment, you can keep your 4th Ammendment.” - The Republican Party
Any “Republican” chastising Paul is exposing him(her)self.
We fought a Revolution against the British to throw off the shackles of tyranny; We fought a World War against Fascism/Totalitarianism, a multi-Generational/Multitheater “Cold” War against Communist dictatorial doctrine, and a War against Islamic Cultists and a tin-pot Dictator, only to have our every communication scooped up into a database, to be harangued, accosted and molested at the airport, to be watched, day-and-night, restlessly by a State that has disregarded the very Supreme Law of the Land that it claims governs it?
**** that shit!
I, like many of you, took an oath to defend the Constitution. I actually believe in the rule of Law, and so, it would appear, does Mr. Paul.
So, if this is where we, as a nation, have come to, what in the **** did our brothers, friends, and forefathers fight and die for?
Look at it this way- when Rand Paul filibusters, we get our rights back, Evil is vanquished, and a Civil War is averted.
When Turd Cruz filibusters, he just makes himself look like a fool and then nothing happens.
As much as we have butted heads in the past, God bless you.
You need to replace the batteries in your sarcasm meter.
…shoulda known better.
:suicide:
Very well put and echo’s my sentiments on the topic nearly to the letter. What ought to scare you is Rand Paul was the ONLY one who stood up for the Constitution and the rule of law.
I also fear you’re forgetting about the safety of the chillens.
And this is where the current GOP is at and what the big money donors are saying;
Some of the biggest donors and fundraisers in the Republican Party, still uncertain who should get their support in 2016, are sprinkling their money around a presidential field that grows by the day.
The largesse born of their indecision has a notable exception: Rand Paul.
The Kentucky senator has aggressively tried to raise money around his effort to curtail the surveillance powers of the National Security Agency, emailing supporters and posting messages on social media imploring people to “celebrate this victory” with their cash.
And
Several other groups are prepared to pounce on Paul if they sense he is gaining traction in the race. Among them is a group led by John Bolton, a former ambassador to the United Nations who recently decided against running himself, but plans to push for strong national security policies from the sidelines.
“I’ve spoken to well over 1,000 major Republican donors and can remember only one who agreed with Rand Paul on foreign policy,” Bolton said. “The views he represents are a tiny, tiny minority within the Republican Party.”
I’m not sure that the GOP is ready for Paul. Most of his foreign policy is based upon staying out of foreign involvements and rewriting the tax code and paying the debt down.
None of that is going to make money for people willing to buy, ahem, I mean donate to Paul candidacy. That alone should be enough to scare the crap out of you.
And if that’s true it’s utterly depressing…