I’ve got a dilemma. I’m placing an order for a complete upper and I’m completely split down the middle on a barrel length of 16 or 18" for my 5.56 build. Let me just say that I’ve searched both here and AR15.com for weeks before I landed here to bother you fine people as a last resort - I’ve even been down to the local gun dealer to hold a few.
What do I want this AR to do? Well, I basically need it to reach out to 600 yards accurately and be a quick home defense weapon when I need it (I don’t have a pistol). I guess my real question is this: Is an 18" barrel (with brake) too much of a burden for being tactical in an urban environment - small enclosures, corners, quick maneuvering, etc. ?
I’ve pretty much decided on the 18"; however, I’m really hoping to hear from those of you who have been in tactical situations with both sizes. Much respect.
Well, I have both of the above listed barrel length’s in my inventory, if the mission is in close and out to 600, you will need to make a compromise or have a second lower on hand. For in close I would want something that is more mobile than an M4, I’m thinking 12.5 or so. If your place has more room to move than mine than the 14.5 would work okay as well.
Out to 600 the 18 rules the hill, period, end of story. well the 20 will beat it out.
In the house and 600 are two different games, pick the stick for the fight. If I had to pick only one I would grab an 18 with a collapsible stock and stacked optics. REGARDLESS train with what you have and KNOW you r hold offs for all ranges.
Edit- added
I have had he ability to shoot and train with a lot of M16/AR15 cloned. I am a medic and I work with a local sheriffs dept. At home in my personal and paid for collection I have both different rifles. But then the Sheriff will sign off on whatever I can justify, for my personal ownership.
Actually is is possible to have the best of both worlds with a 16" SPR type set up.
Really there are only two things you are deciding about; muzzle velocity versus handling. Between a 16" and an 18" you are talking about quite small marginal differences.
The velocity differential between a 16" and an 18" is not really that much of a factor, about 150± fps. This means you can just as easily make hits at 600 with a 16" as with an 18".
Then the 16" is relatively more maneuverable at close ranges.
Considering your particular case, with the requirements for a home defense rifle, I would opt for the 16", as it will be more maneuverable and faster on target indoors, but still be capable of 600, 700 or even 800 meter hits. When you have just the one rifle bias your decision to take the advantage for the most likely self defense scenario. Home defense inside is much more likely than shooting something at 600yards for defense.
I have a Daniel Defense SPR with the excellent Lothar Walther LW50 16" barrel and it is handy for fast CQB and I have also punched holes at 800yards with it.
16 inch. While even the 16" is not ideal for home defense if you are trying to do room clearings, it is not an NFA item and is probably the best compromise between home defense and special purpose rifles. If you had not stated the goal of 600m shots, I would have said a 14.5" with a pinned muzzle device. For frequent hits out to 600m, you will probably need some training and significant practice, both of which will negate a two inch loss in barrel length.
I’m not sure about who has them in stock, but I definitely recommend centurion arms barrels. They are more than worth the wait. I’d venture to say there is almost no way you could be disappointed in the product. Monty’s Mk12 Mod1 upper dramatically exceeded my expectations, and they were pretty high to start with! I just orderd his DMR upper with the same barrel as well as another Mk12 barrel for a custom project.
I was so pleased with it, I am considering re-barreling all of my ARs with his product.
I have never experienced semi-auto accuracy and consistency to the degree this barrel delivered.
The following is from the wikipedia entry for the Crane spec rifle:
"Barrel: An 18-inch (457 mm) threaded-muzzle match-grade free floating stainless steel heavy barrel with a 1:7 (178 mm) rifling twist ratio is standard for the SPR. The barrels are manufactured by Douglas Barrels with a special contour to maximize accuracy and to minimize weight. An OPS Inc. muzzle brake and collar (to align the OPS Inc. 12th Model Suppressor) is installed with the barrel. These barrels were designed to take advantage of the new Mk 262 cartridge, which uses a 77-grain (5 g) bullet. "
I hate to use the word assume, but I am assuming that Monty has the relationship with the manufacturer. I’d have to let him comment further.
I’m probably ragging on myself by saying this but I can do no better with my .308 or .300 win mag R700/M24 builds at 100yards. I didn’t get a chance to reach out further than that while I was home. I was spending most of my time on builds and trying to zero everything.
All I can say is with time I did have, I shot my Mk12 Mod1 more than any other rifle because it made me feel like a rock star–I was able to put little holes in all the places I wanted far better than I ever have before.
Thanks for the replies guys. I just talked to Mark from Larue Tactical about the Stealth uppers and he said that I’ll be waiting around 12 weeks for delivery - perfectly fine with me. As far as barrel size, I’m grabbing the 16" with the intent (fingers crossed) of 600y MOA or sub. If these uppers are as good as I hear, I should be very happy. Now, the task at hand is figuring out a sight system that allows me to aim around my optics for effective close range engagement. Back to the drawing board…
You will also need to consider what optics you will be putting on it. A scope for 600yd target work is going to be less then optimal for HD. On the other hand an RDS would be ideal for HD but not the best for accuracy at 600yds.
BUIS would work for close range, but they are typically for “back-up” should your optic go down. With an optic intended for 600 yard accuracy, you would most likely need to remove the optic pror to deployment of the BUIS.
I know there are a lot of variables that need to be considered for your setup, but I believe the Daniel Defense 1 O’Clock Offset Rail would fill the role of a system that allows you “to aim around (your) optics for effective close range engagement.”
Yes the iron sights will work. Most people on this forum prefer to run a red dot sight such as an aimpoint T-1 because it will let you acquire your target faster with both eyes open and focusing on target(s). It is beneficial but not absolutely necessary whereas your BUIS is necessary.
This one is good from bad breath distances to 800 Meters.
Daniel Defense SPR complete upper, with Leupold MK4 1.5-5x20mm illuminated SPR reticle in LaRure SPR QD mount and Troy BUIS.
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A friend of mine has the exact same set up from LaRue with the 16" Stealth upper (Daniel Defense and LaRue used the same barrel maker, Lothar Walther) and it is a sub 0.5MOA tack driver. Make sure you get a good trigger.
With practice you can be just as fast with a 16" and a decent optic as with an SBR and a red dot. I timed myself and a shooting buddy running drills at 5, 10, 15 and 20 yards using these two rifles and the differences in splits and time to hits were negligible.
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My brother with the SPR & SBR at the range, just for fun…
Wow, 800 yard hole punching with a 16" - amazing. I’ve been studying long range theory and am bent on long range accuracy. That’s what this AR is for. It will also be within reach while I sleep since this once quiet neighborhood is starting to turn - which is due to the unbelievable loss of jobs around here. And so, I am building my quick kill, run for the hill, SHTF weapon. I love this forum.
