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Why is it so horrifically expensive, given that it costs about the same as M855 to make?
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Will the price come down eventually? If so, how long will it take?
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What is the opinion on this forum of the enhanced performance magazine? Is it really more reliable like the Army says, or complete crap like the Marines say? Or is it no better or worse than previous USGI pattern mags?
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Re the EPMs, is OKAY still making them, or is Center Industries now the only supplier? I can only find Center Industries EPMs for sale, and would obviously prefer OKAY.
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Despite being fugly as hell, is it correct to say that the Surefeed E2 is basically a civilian version of the EPM? Better than the EPM? Or am I comparing apples and oranges?
My guess on cost is because of availability - I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen it for sale commercially. I have not used the EPM as they are reported to be unreliable. I have a slide somewhere that shows increased failure rate over M3 PMAGs. While some of it wasn’t the mags fault, I believe the M3s are superior either way, so might as well stick to using those. I’m not aware of any of my coworkers having issues with theirs, but they’ve seen very limited use so far. I was pretty impressed with the accuracy of A1.
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I would like to get some factory loaded stuff as well as some projectiles and load some of my own at acceptable pressures,from what I hear it’s pretty hot stuff.
I founds projectiles for 1$ a piece…still a little to high for me,i’d Pay .50$ a piece just to try and make up my own @ around 3,000ish fps.
I heard the pressure thing was blown out of proportion. Crane basically said that the breakages were due to using relatively short barrels and an intense firing schedule, and indicated that M855 would have produced the same breakage rate given that same firing schedule.
Either way, bolts are cheap, especially when compared to how much ammo you would have to shoot to actually break one. And I wouldn’t be shooting it full time, either. I would sight in with it, do some reliability testing, and then switch back to whatever’s cheapest for the range.
But when M855A1 gets affordable, I will be stacking that shit deep. I don’t think it’s quite dawned on people how great it is yet. It’s not just better than M855. For all around performance, it’s better than anything else on the market. Just incredible stuff.
Here’s something I’ve been wondering about M855A1 for a while: I don’t have a complete understanding of how the US military classifies it’s equipment, so why does the nomenclature of M855A1 seem to essentially designate it as a derivative/improvement of M855 when as far as I can tell, the M855A1 is quite distinct in it’s specifications, It seems like it is as different from standard M855 as M855 is from, say M193 for instance. Given it’s relative uniqueness compared to other 5.56 loadings in the US inventory, I’m surprised it would’nt warrant a more distinctive designation, such as, just as an example, “M998” or something.
I think everyone is wondering that. It almost has to be political. Like whoever designated it did it to mislead people into thinking it was just an updated M855. I think that’s a big part of why people aren’t all over it like flies on a dogpile. It just hasn’t dawned on them yet that it’s in no way related to M855. Because of the name, I imagine lots of people are thinking it’s just more M855 crap that icepicks and can’t hit the broad side of a barn. It’s ironic that the best round ever developed by the military shares the same designation as the worst round ever developed by them. Or anyone for that matter…:lol:
Why stick with the M855A1 designation? Probably because it is a general issue round whereas the M99x series are unique use rounds and are far more costly in their manufacturing. In other words it makes ordering for resupply easier for the whole chain of approval.
I would call them no better or really worse than the previous tan follower mag, but just optimized for M855A1 by adjusting the feed angle to present the round slightly higher as it enters the chamber. I don’t recall anyone experiencing any issues with them in my last unit, but Army testing are Aberdeen apparently showed them to be a little less reliable than the tan follower mag. I would caveat that by saying that the vast, vast majority of EPMs currently in service were made by Center, and I’ve never thought their quality control was as good as Okay, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see an occasional issue related to how the mag was assembled and finished, not because of the design itself.
- Re the EPMs, is OKAY still making them, or is Center Industries now the only supplier? I can only find Center Industries EPMs for sale, and would obviously prefer OKAY.
Center was the original manufacturer of the EPM and until recently held the sole contract to produce them for the military. As I alluded to above, I haven’t been too impressed with the quality of Center’s EPM (mostly just subjective visual observation), and I learned recently that Okay is now producing EPMs (within the last year). I haven’t seen any myself, but an Okay rep asked me if I had seen any of theirs in circulation, and I heard from a member on another forum that he has seen them in a Marine Corps unit. I’d like to get hold of one to see how the compare to the Center version, but I’m not in a line unit anymore.
- Despite being fugly as hell, is it correct to say that the Surefeed E2 is basically a civilian version of the EPM? Better than the EPM? Or am I comparing apples and oranges?
The Okay E2 is not a civilian version of the EPM. From my email conversation with an Okay rep, the E2 is designed to allow the rounds to strip off the top with less resistance (friction) to allow for more reliable feeding. This is done with a combination of the follower design and the cut back feed lips. However, he said that an unintended result of the design is that the cut back feedlips allow the rounds to angle upward sooner (at a point where the full feedlips of a standard GI mag would still be holding the round in a horizontal position). This may allow M855A1 to feed up the ramp with less resistance, but that was not the intent of the E2 design, because it was designed for civilian use, and Okay doesn’t expect civilians to have regular access to M855A1.
While I have one in my rotation, no issue with it and have to check on manufacturer. My observation was with 3 classes, 855A1 and the said mags, 12-16 shooters, 800-1000 rounds each with no noted issues mag related. While the class had staged malfunctions, no obvious issues otherwise. I don’t remember who made this magazines either.
Both the M855 and M855A1 are 62gr with steel penetrators. The M193 is neither. Regardless of that, the M855A1 was SUPPOSED to have the same trajectory as the M855, allowing the same zeros and use of ACOG M855 BDCs. That was the intent, and likely the reason for appending “A1”. The reality is that it’s not quite the same external ballistics, but that finding was after naming it.
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Supply < demand . . . simple.
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If supply => demand, yes … not anytime soon.
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I will say that the Army did a comprehensive test of the PMAG.
The PMAG met all requirements except: Rough Handling and Ammunition Compatibility, which were partially met.
Rough handling:
- The loaded magazine remained intact and operational after being dropped from a height of 5 ft individually and while inserted into a weapon at ambient and hot temperatures. In cold temperatures the majority of the magazine’s bottom base plate broke and all the magazine contents fell out in the weapon drop orientation (dropped onto the magazine with the magazine inserted in the weapon).
Ammunition Compatibility:
- The magazine fired 30 rounds each of the following; M193, M856, M995 AP, M855, Mk262 ammunition without magazine related stoppages or malfunctions. When firing M200 blank ammunition; one failure to strip round (FSR) stoppage occurred that was charged to the magazine. When firing M862 SRTA ammunition; there were two failure-to-feed (FFD) stoppages that were charged to the weapon/magazine.
Aluminum magazines meet all requirements.
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Eventually, all USGI magazine suppliers will make them.
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The Surefeed design is patented, so, no, it is not exactly the same as the Enhanced Performance Magazine. Better? I haven’t tested them so - Idon’t know.
I hadn’t seen those details on the PMAGs, where did you get that info?
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Forget M855 It’s ****ing garbage and overpriced… inaccurate, horrible chance of fragmentation. It’s just ****ing shit. M193 is far more effective on a human target and cheaper.
And this right here is a prime example of why nobody is going apeshit over M855A1, because everyone thinks it’s just a minor update to standard M855. The greatest 5.56 round ever devised by man has been out in the wild for like ten years now and nobody knows it exists!
No.
M855A1 with the tungsten tip pits your receivers and chamber if not fed in properly as the tip is harder than the aluminum or steel.
That tip chips everything it touches. M855a1 is garbage because it shouldn’t be shot out of the rifles we are using it with.
We know it exist, it’s just stupid until we get something that doesn’t get damaged with the use of it.
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That’s an April fools joke. I’m pretty sure.
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Those statements are false - I was corrected on them several months ago in a related thread.
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I dont know where you are getting your info from but, the tip of M855A1 is not made of tungsten.
You should really check your sources, I thought the round was garbage too after hearing(reading on the internet) it was over-pressured,damages guns and was designed around a stupid “green” lead-free requirement.
Then I heard from people who actually used it in theater and seen its effects 1st hand. They are not over pressured, nor do wear out guns more significantly than regular ammo if you are using the correct magazines. Now Ive changed my tune, M855A1 is probably the most effective general purpose cartridge we’ve ever adopted.
WHERE are yall getting this ammo? Ive looked to no avail.
No one talks about it because Civs can’t get it. You either have to buy pulled bullets and try to make some yourself, have some fall off the back of a truck somewhere of if you make youtube videos,stumble upon some rounds in the desert.