Question to real ‘pipe-hitters’ ‘snake-eaters’ etc-true effective range of AR?

[Grendelshooter]

I am not nor was I ever an operator. I was a line unit grunt who did a couple deployments to the sandbox. From there I’ve become quite the AR enthusiast, as are we all.

So for my 16” 5.56 guns I kinda figure they are good out to 500-600 yards with mk262 clone loads which is most of what I have. This has dictated my choice of optics (LPVO in 1-6 and 2-10 range).

Now lately I’ve been re-examining this philosophy and find lots of people who claim to be subject matter experts in the way of the gun claiming that a 16” AR is no good past 300 yards. If that’s true then red dots on everything and keep things simple without the expense of more complex scopes. I run my ballistic calculators and see that the bullets themselves don’t go subsonic until we’ll past 600 which would dictate something with a bit more magnification.

So what gives? Why the disconnect between ballistics and concept? Is it just what’s ‘in’ now? Frankly I always liked my ACOG/RMR setup but seems like that’s ancient history now lol.

[Straight_Shooter]

IF you know the tenants of marksmanship, have accurate, heavy grained ammo, a good optic & can call wind…youre good on out to 800yds or more.
Iraqgunz…I THINK it was him, told a story of witnessing an 800yd {I THNK} shot whilst in the desert. Dont know if it was with an optic or what.
But anyway…its WAY out past 300 yards.

[Grendelshooter]

@Straight_Shooter

IF you know the tenants of marksmanship, have accurate, heavy grained ammo, a good optic & can call wind…youre good on out to 800yds or more.
Iraqgunz…I THINK it was him, told a story of witnessing an 800yd {I THNK} shot whilst in the desert. Dont know if it was with an optic or what.
But anyway…its WAY out past 300 yards.

I’m no ninja but I do alright.
I remember the special forces guys we would work with (outer cordon during raids, transportation, etc) talking about MK12s and 262 being good to 800.

[Straight_Shooter]

@Grendelshooter

I’m no ninja but I do alright.
I remember the special forces guys we would work with (outer cordon during raids, transportation, etc) talking about MK12s and 262 being good to 800.

Ive got a 20" SPR I had put together & if I could EVER get time behind the trigger…I would NOT hesitate to pop a shot out that far, if the wind wasnt crazy.
One of our esteemed members here recently put a round on target at 1300 yds…with a M700 I think it was, and several attempts. I dont know if that round woulda had “killin power” or not…but he did it.

[AndyLate]

Effective how? A 55 gr 5.56 bullet has about the same energy at 1000 meters as a standard velocity 22 LR does at the muzzle. At some point, hitting a target and having the desired effect on the target are not the same.

What do you intend to shoot at extended range?

Andy

[Grendelshooter]

@AndyLate

Effective how? A 55 gr 5.56 bullet has about the same energy at 1000 meters as a standard velocity 22 LR does at the muzzle. At some point, hitting a target and having the desired effect on the target are not the same.

What do you intend to shoot at extended range?

Andy

Covid vax zombies of course

[C-grunt_old]

I have a kill at 410 meters with a SDMR and M262. My old team/squad leader who went SF has kills out around 400 meters with his Mk18. Like was said above IraqGunz had a story of witnessing a SF guy smoking a dude at over 800 yards with a M4 and a LPVO of some sort.

I’ve seen guys shot with M855 out past 300 meters. It’ll still drill a hole completely through you and probably come out sideways.

[Eurodriver]

@C-grunt

I have a kill at 410 meters with a SDMR and M262. My old team/squad leader who went SF has kills out around 400 meters with his Mk18. Like was said above IraqGunz had a story of witnessing a SF guy smoking a dude at over 800 yards with a M4 and a LPVO of some sort.

I’ve seen guys shot with M855 out past 300 meters. It’ll still drill a hole completely through you and probably come out sideways.

That’s bogus. I was talking to a special ops Instagram guy. He’s salty at the moment that a Medal of Honor recipient called him out for being a nerd, but that’s a separate issue. Anyway, he said be was special forces USMC green beret and 5.56 deflected off blades of grass.

So 400m kills with an M4? No way!

[1168]

There’s a few factors here. External ballistics, terminal performance, and you, the shooter. The max distance at which you can reliably spot and identify targets and get hits on a unknown distance target that has no desire to be shot is your max effective range. Sort of. Your projectile may or may not expand or upset or whatever at that distance, but IMO, all hits matter past a certain distance. Whether dude dies immediately, or simply starts bleeding is less important than at close range, where you need him out of the fight RIGHT NOW. Sure, the bullet performing as designed at 500 would be great, too. But here’s the thing…. you still have to see the threat, and identify it as a threat, and hit however much of the threat is presented. So its situationally dependent.

[Eurodriver]

@1168

There’s a few factors here. External ballistics, terminal performance, and you, the shooter. The max distance at which you can reliably spot and identify targets and get hits on a unknown distance target that has no desire to be shot is your max effective range. Sort of. Your projectile may or may not expand or upset or whatever at that distance, but IMO, all hits matter past a certain distance. Whether dude dies immediately, or simply starts bleeding is less important than at close range, where you need him out of the fight RIGHT NOW. Sure, the bullet performing as designed at 500 would be great, too. But here’s the thing…. you still have to see the threat, and identify it as a threat, and hit however much of the threat is presented. So its situationally dependent.

Whatever. I have 20 days of training. I know more than you.

[1168]

@Eurodriver

Whatever. I have 20 days of training. I know more than you.

[ST911]

A combination of good shooter, good barrel, good ammo, and good spotter can put 5.56 on target well past 1000 yards with 16-18" barrels. Terminal ballistic performance will change or decline past certain distance/velocity thresholds. Choose the right combination of variables, know your gear, train hard for your needs.

[Grendelshooter]

@1168

There’s a few factors here. External ballistics, terminal performance, and you, the shooter. The max distance at which you can reliably spot and identify targets and get hits on a unknown distance target that has no desire to be shot is your max effective range. Sort of. Your projectile may or may not expand or upset or whatever at that distance, but IMO, all hits matter past a certain distance. Whether dude dies immediately, or simply starts bleeding is less important than at close range, where you need him out of the fight RIGHT NOW. Sure, the bullet performing as designed at 500 would be great, too. But here’s the thing…. you still have to see the threat, and identify it as a threat, and hit however much of the threat is presented. So its situationally dependent.

So there is an argument to be made that an average shooter, even with a tricked out carbine, is only capable of effective use within a few hundred yards.
I could see that and agree.

[just_a_scout]

@Grendelshooter

So there is an argument to be made that an average shooter, even with a tricked out carbine, is only capable of effective use within a few hundred yards.
I could see that and agree.

Absolutely. But, it’s hats conflating the Indian with the arrow.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[1168]

@Grendelshooter

So there is an argument to be made that an average shooter, even with a tricked out carbine, is only capable of effective use within a few hundred yards.
I could see that and agree.

Yes.

And your ACOG/RMR is still a viable choice.

[feraldog]

with 16" & 4x acog i hit consistently to 500 with 55gr fed american eagle, and often enough to 800 if not too windy

with delta-dot rmr i’m good to 400 but my eyesight isn’t that great

[VIP3R_237]

@Grendelshooter

So there is an argument to be made that an average shooter, even with a tricked out carbine, is only capable of effective use within a few hundred yards.
I could see that and agree.

Absolutely. Effective range is irrelevant if you cannot consistently put hits on target.

[docsherm]

MK262 from a 12.5 AR WORKS as it should at 500 meters (Give or take).

[STICKMAN]

@ST911

A combination of good shooter, good barrel, good ammo, and good spotter can put 5.56 on target well past 1000 yards with 16-18" barrels. Terminal ballistic performance will change or decline past certain distance/velocity thresholds. Choose the right combination of variables, know your gear, train hard for your needs.

Thank you, your post saved me from having to write out the same thing.

[utahjeeper]

As has been said, there is a long list of variables involved in making effective hits on “light/medium game” at range. The further out you go the less those combined variables favor the shooter. Equipment selection, preparation, skill, assistance, and luck/chance can all effect those variables. Ballistics are one thing, “applied ballistics” is a different animal altogether.