Let me preface this thread by saying that I am still fairly new to CCW. I’ve been doing it off and on for about 18 months. I’ve done my best to read most of the threads here on the topic, but I would still like some direct input from the members here.
I’m about 5’7", 145 pounds and wear a size 31 waist pant when I’m not CCW-ing. My current CCW is a Glock 26 in a leather holster with a clip made by “The Masters”. It isn’t the most high quality piece, but it is readily available at the local gun shops here in Tucson. I like this holster only because it is a small enough package that I can pocket carry the G26 in the front right pocket of any cargo shorts/pants, larger pocket jeans, and in my jacket. It sucks as a IWB at 4:00 because the gun rides too low and you have to really work your fingers between the frontstrap and your pants. The same issue (low positioning) occurs at appendix (1:00-2:00), but it’s easier to overcome when the gun is in front of you.
After reading tons of positive feedback here on the Milt Sparks VMII, I ordered one around June 2010 and received it today. My initial impression is that this is a very high quality piece. The high position of the gun, conceals into the crease of my ribs and gut. I walked up to the wife, had her check me out, and she couldn’t find where I was carrying (She asked if I strapped it to my thigh :haha:). She usually has no trouble finding the gun on me. However, I couldn’t help but notice that this holster adds quite a lot of mass to my 3:00-4:00 and leaves a hand sized gap between my pants and body at 5:00.
My questions are:
For those that have compared them, how does the VMII compare in comfort and concealment to a SCW Isotope 7 holster or kydex IWB such as Raven or PCH Holdfast? I don’t plan on CCW-ing with a WML so this isn’t an issue.
How long of a break-in period is required for a quality leather holster? It’s very stiff right now, but the gun goes in and comes out perfectly. This is my first one and most threads I’ve come across only talk about how amazing the holster conceals and how comfortable it is.
Do most of you experience printing while bending at the waist when you CCW? It’s nearly impossible to spot the G19 on me while I’m standing straight, but if I bend forward even a little, the butt of the gun sticks out of my back like a tumor. The more I bend the worse it is. I’m a pretty flexible guy and it’s awkward trying to move around without bending at the waist.
I have a number of holsters, leather and kydex, and VM-II is one of my best pieces. I have one for Glock 19, for which I also have a Raven holster. Not exactly apples to apples as Raven is light-compatible, but nonetheless.
VM is more comfortable and conceals slightly better. Over a period of time it conforms a tiny bit to a body. VM has overall smaller size and profile. Raven is comfy too, but not as much. Raven, and kydex in general, is faster. With Raven I can adjust a cant a bit by moving loops, something you can’t do with VM.
The break-in differs between makers and models. As long as you don’t need to force it out, it is good to go. Generally, with quality makers, it is either good out of box, or withing 25-40 presentations. I have had exceptions to it, though.
As far as bulge when leaning, I think most of them will print to some extent. It is also a function of body size and being a slim fellow that you are, you may be a bit disadvantaged here. Play with holster’s position so the grip is laying alongside your body rather than tangentially.
Sounds like we have the same build, I’m also 5’7 & 145.
I have tried every holster out there and VM-II is by far the best holster for my build. I have a VM-II for my Glock 19, Browning Hi Power and 5" 1911. I had one for a Glock 26 and didn’t like it.
The gap in the back of the jeans just comes with the territory.
I found the Hi Power is the most comfortable gun for me to carry, it’s a small, thin gun and it wears IWB nicely. It also helps that it’s my favorite pistol.
Comp-tac has some great holsters at a decent price.
The MTAC is very comfortable, but the reholster may be a bit slower sometimes than regular leather or all kydex. For Glocks, I’d prefer the model specific over the belt slide personally.
The CTAC is not as comfortable, but also one to consider.
Would recommend Comp-tac solely on their guarantee. If you don’t like it, just send it back.
The MTAC & CTAC conceal better than many other holsters that I own, but it’s difficult to conceal a Block for me no matter what holster is used.
I’ve carried a fullsize gun in a VM-II for years. It is hands down the most comfortable, well designed and well built holster for its purpose (IMHO and many others I respect) Leather is just more comfy than Kydex, but does not draw quite as fast, but fast enuff;). Leather does have a break in period. It will eventually fit you perfect. It takes awhile:D Right of passage to have it fit your body. If it sticks to your ass in summer try a little baby powder;)
CCW is a constantly changing/circumstances of compromise. I find that if I have reason to worry about lots of bending over or a crowded place where I bump people alot that the 3:30-4 O’Clock position does not work (where it normally is) I then move it forward to the 3 O’Clock position so it does not print nearly as bad when bending and my arm is always over it for bending or bumping to protect it. For example when I go to a certain venue I know that the folding chairs do not work at the 3:30-4 position as it is uncomfortable and when I stand up I will bring the chair with me:eek: So, it will be carried at 3:30 no problems. Don’t bend its bad for the back you should use your legs anyway and learn to direct the arms of short women hugging you up over your arms;)
I agree that it is very comfortable and thanks for the suggestions about moving it around. I had thought that it was intended for behind 3:00, but I tried it on at 3:00 and it does significantly reduce the printing while bending. It does slightly create a bump at the right side of my waist, but it’s well concealed by my arm.
Thanks about the info about the gap. I’ve seen a few threads that show people with their VMIIs and it appears to fit well. I guess for skinnier folks, there will be a gap, but at least it won’t get too sweaty back there :eek:.
The way that my G19 fits in the VMII is perfect. I really can’t complain one bit. The bottom of the trigger guard is shaved down and smoothed out so perhaps that is why it feels very smooth to the draw.
Thanks for the suggestions on gun position. It is very comforting to know that I’m not the only one having such a hard time. Having the gun on my hip can feel really restricting, so much that I feel that I almost walk differently, unnaturally.
I don’t have to bend to hug the wife. I’m already short and she’s only 5’3".
I’m 6ft+ and have a 32" waist and the gaps you speak of will reduce once the holster breaks into your shape. You just have to adapt where you place the gun for the clothing, environment sometimes. You will also learn to watch out for certain fabrics that are more prone to ride up & snag/hang on the gun, fabrics that blow up easily in the wind. Leather jackets print badly. Lighter colors print badly. Solid colors print worse than patterns. Any shiny fabric prints badly. Be more careful when in certain locales, i.e. Costco, liquor store… places that are already paranoid of guns. Chairs with open backs can grab the gun and pull it out or hangup and rise with you as you stand. Its easy sometimes for your cover garment to ride up while driving and you get out of vehicle and you have your gun completely exposed, so you will get in habit of checking as you debus a vehicle.
Light weight sports vests like Arcteryx, North Face in darker colors can often times be worn most of the year and are non-tactical and fashionable. Alot of companies like GAP, Eddie Bower, etc. make simple designer t-shirts out od heavier materials that work well for hot weather. Its very fashionable now to wear button downs untucked with slacks.
Its also not a bad idea to get a single stack for certain wardrobe choices.
I carried in VMIIs for years when I was doing the 1911 thing. Loved them. Had, IIRC, at least three of them.
When I went back to the Glock I considered the VMII for it, but the thickness that the VMII adds to any gun seemed magnified on the already-thicker Glock, so I went with the Raven. I have subsequently been carrying in Ravens almost exclusively for the past couple of years. I find them slightly less comfortable than the VMII with my 1911s, but I find the overall thickness of Glock/Raven to be almost identical to the overall thickness of the 1911/VMII. I may even have pictures of the comparison around here somewhere…
Holster choice is an intensely personal thing. As anyone who has been carrying for awhile will tell you, you go through a lot of holsters looking for the “perfect” one, and then you change guns and start all over again. There is no right answer.
That’s 100% right there. Holsters are very “personal” and dependent on so many variables, including but not limited to; pistol, your body type, style of clothing, etc.
Also completely true the whole game changes when even 1 of those variables change … lose/gain a few pounds, change pistols, change belts, change of season, etc. Not everyone changes frequently but these are things to consider.
I’m a thin guy too and have carried my G19 in a VMII for roughly six years now. It fits like a glove but you will need to experiment with placement. It works best for me at the 3:30 position.
However, over the past 4-5 months I’ve grown to like my Raven IWB holster a little bit more than my VMII. I never thought I’d say that but it’s true.
Even as small as I am I used to carry a full size 1911 in a VMII all the time and when I got one for my G19 it was a perfect fit. But I started carrying the Phantom here and there and the next thing I knew I was carrying it all the time.
A few months ago I went out of town for the weekend and I took my VMII instead of the Raven because I thought it would be more comfortable. By day two I was wishing that I brought my Raven instead.
Good point, I noticed the thickness as well and that’s what got me thinking about kydex (PCH Holdfast) or a reduced mass leather design like the SCW Isotope 7 by Brommeland. I don’t think it appears that as many people have experience with those designs. As of right now, just having it on in the house only, this holster is extremely comfortable and I have zero complaints.
Aww, you guys are killing me :D. Just got the one holster in the mail and I might have to order another! I’m going to be in the doghouse for sure :p. Well, at least with the wait times for Raven, it’ll be what, like 6 months later?
Forgettin your using a Glock. When I make the leap to tupperwear which will probably be soon, I will be considering going hybrid with something like Comp-Tac’s Minotaur. If the VM-II is at the right height then keep that in mind when looking at other holsters. Some sit higher, lower, cant this way or that… and can work or not work. The Sparks 60TK was this way. I loooooove the holster and it does well what it intends to do which is carry the gun higher, but evidently my ribs aren’t high enough for this holster:p
and she’s only 5’3".