I know, I know, they suck. But I have a more specific question and I hoped some legal eagle from the land of fruits and nuts could set me straight.
I have a nephew who recently graduated college and is working as a pilot based out of San Francisco. He grew up in Montana and Wyoming and is interested in getting a handgun. And he’s kinda got an itch for a 1911. It just so happens I possess an Ed Brown Executive Elite Centennial Edition 1911 that I purchased a while back. I’m considering letting him have this pistol now (as it was my intention that he get it someday) and don’t see much benefit from the pistol sitting in my gun safe until I’m drooling or dead.
Besides, he wants to get some pistol training and the money he might have spent on a pistol can go towards that. In fact, that would be my only condition attached to giving him this gun. That, and if he trashes it he never let me know.
Here’s where I need some help. I know the California DOJ has a website with their list of CA-approved models. And I know Ed Brown has CA-approved models for sale. So what’s the difference when we’re talking a 1911? And if it’s a private transfer, does the pistol have to be on the DOJ CA-approved model list (assuming it doesn’t violate any mag-capacity limits and such)?
I just want to know if I can give the kid the pistol while he’s living in San Francisco. Any guidance would be appreciated.
Did you look at the DOJ website? It’s pretty clear.
I think as long as the mag is < 10 rounds you’re fine. Mags > 10 rounds that were in-state before the ban are fine (don’t know if they had to be registered) SF city might have their own quirky laws though.
I guess the info on the CA DOJ site seems rather abstruse to me.
Here’s the text from the approved handgun roster page (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/):
Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.
The first sentence says “no handgun may . . . lent, given . . . unless that handgun model blah, blah, blah.” The the next sentence says private party transfers are exempt.
So if I give my nephew a gun is that considered “given” or is that a private party transfer? And how does it work if I give the gun to him when he visits his folks (back home in Wyoming) and he takes it back with him to California?
I just don’t want to try to give the kid a gift and have him get jammed up because we didn’t do our homework.
The CA DOJ list only applies to guns that are SOLD in the state. This will include you sending the pistol to him to pass through an FFL, I believe.
However, if the pistol is already owned it can be brought into the state as part of a collection and kept. So long as it does not violate the assault weapon restrictions (threaded barrels, magazines greater than 10 rounds, etc) it is good to go. It will have to be registered with the DOJ, though.
Personal transfers in the state of CA must pass through dealers, and they may not want to deal with off roster guns. IMO, the best bet would be to transfer the pistol as a gift while he is visiting you in Montana some time. He can then bring it back as a personal import (notice the law only applies to “import for sale”).
But, as usual, I am not a lawyer. Your best bet is to check with the guys at calguns.net who try to make sense of the legal trappings of the state. They have been invaluable to me with my collection when the Air Force moved me from Great Falls, MT to central California.
Edit to add:
If you don’t see the exact model (typically listed by SKU#), then it isn’t good for sale. There has been quite a lot of confusion with M&P 45s, for example, because the model number listed on the DOJ roster is different than that actual one (a typo, most likely). A lot of dealers won’t sell the CA version of the M&P 45 because of the mixup.
Call a place called Riflegear that’s south of LA. They may have advice on a practice called the “Single Shot Exemption” where the off-list handgun is transferred as a single shot pistol (requires a special barrel and I think a special magazine). They’re doing this on a number of off-list handguns at the moment, but may only want to deal with guns that are worth it to them. In other words, new guns that they can sell significantly above retail because of the SSE modification. If they are willing to do it, you can then send the original parts to your relative, and they can modify the gun back into a semi-auto. Apparently it’s legal to do this, but I have not done so myself. Google the Single Shot Exemption and see if it may apply in this case, if it’s worth it to you.
Link for SSE: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383692
If you are physically present in the State of California at the FFL whilst the Private Party Transfer is completed, then the approved rooster DOES NOT apply.
If however you ship the pistol to California via an FFL to a dealer within the State then as stated above the only option is the SSE.
Note: Some Law Enforcement and security personnel are also exempt from the rooster when purchasing the firearm for work, etc.
This seems like the most common-sense approach for a 1911. I told my nephew, in addition to doing some homework on calguns.com, to make a few inquiries with firearms dealers in his area.
As I mentioned before, I just don’t want him to land in a situation where he tries to jump through the proper hoops and ends up with the gun seized or confiscated. THAT would seriously piss me off.
Here’s a big win
“Federal Judge Says California Attorney General Kamala Harris Wrong on Gun Control Laws”
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/09/5986084/federal-judge-says-california.html
No doubt someone will repost it somewhere else w/o searching or being a assclown.
If your pistol is not named specifically by model # on CA’s retarded approved list, its a no go unless you do an SSE as mentioned above. San Francisco is the butthole of CA as most of you know and they have even stricter laws within their borders than the rest of CA from what I understand. At least they are constantly trying to pass their own legislation. I don’t even visit there and I turn down work in the bay area often. If your pistol is named specifically on the list as approved, you can find a number of SSE dealers in the gay bay. Ship it to them, they’ll charge a fee for the SSE conversion, a fee for registration, and you’ll Prolly be in it about $100. Honestly if I were you I’d send JR $500 to buy a plastic pistol at his local gun shop and forget about it.
Hopefully if he’s working out of SFO, he won’t be living in SF. The airport is three cities away from SF. San Carlos is nice.
It all comes down on how you want to “give” it to him.
Out of state face to face is the easiest. Technically he needs to register the gun in 30 days after he brings it in. There is no punishment if he doesn’t. If he is ever going to fly armed and also gets a CCW, then it will need to be in his name.
If you bring it in to CA, then a simple $35 face to face transfer at Jackson Arms in South San Francisco will do the trick.
If you ship it, then it either needs to be on the roster or sent a dealer for single shot exemption.
PM if you need info on local shops.
Interesting, in Hawaii I was required to make 3 trips to the police station and wait 14 days for every handgun (and it had better be 14. If you didn’t come back on day 14, you had to start all over again)
I wonder if there is a chance if where this is headed will have any impact on states like Hawaii as well.