I recently began reloading .223… I compared a few fired cases to some new unfired rounds (both .223 Federal and LC CM193) and found the shoulder on the fired cases to be bumped out about ~.005".
That is all fine, but I resized a few cases in my Lee Full Length sizing die (set up per instructions to resize back to “factory” specs) and I measured the shoulder and it was -.013" back from the fired case measurement (or another .007" farther back than the factory loaded Federal and Lake City rounds).:blink:
What gives? I understand that I can back off the die to achieve my desired set back, but doesn’t ~.007" farther back than other factory rounds seem excessive???
You use a case gauge to test your resizing results–if it tests good in the gauge–then that’s all you need–Dillon sells stainlessCase Gauges–they sell for under 30 buck’s–this takes the guess work out of the equasion–you can test your loaded rounds also–this tests bulging the shoulder:cool:
The answer to your basic question is yes that is too much. You will get head separations bumping the brass .012/3" when sizing. All that is necessary for good function is about .003" setback on the headspace. I run mine even tighter, but it’s for a precision application.
Adjust your die to allow your brass a longer life. Using a gauge while accepted practice when loading for numerous rifles is not as good as using your chamber and your brass for your reloads.
I understand that I can back off the die to achieve my desired set back…
Doing this will be SOP for setting up any resizing die after you’ve done it for awhile. I would not back off so much that you don’t make any contact against the ram, however. If you still cannot get where you want to be, you may want to try another brand of dies.
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You either need to get a case gauge (Dillon) or an RCBS Case Micrometer thingy majig. Right now you are sizing brass so small that the case is growing .013 plus what ever your chamber is. This is streching your case at the web.
In general, I use an RCBS case gauge to set my sizing die and if I or someone else is having ammo malfunctions I’ll bring out the Dillon/Wilson gauge and start checking the ammo.
The three rifles that I load for regularly are +.003 and 2 are +.004. I size all my brass to +.002 and periodicaly check it. About the fourth firing for the brass I have to move it back another. 002 to SAMMI 0.0. because the brass will start to work harden and spring back. Annealing would solve the brass springing back but I generally only reload it 3-4 times and pitch it.
If it were a bolt rifle I’d have you start sizing a factory fired case and try it in the gun. Keep turning the sizing die down an 8th of a turn. Once you start moving the sides in you won’t be able to close the bolt as the sides get pushed in the shoulder will grow. After awhile the bolt will start to close with a hitch. Once the hitch has stopped and it closes smoothly you should be about .002-3 under your chamber (ballpark). You could speed the guestimation process alittle by smoking the neck and shoulder in a candle flame. Google metalic cartridge reloading. Hope this helps. Greg
You don’t need a case gauge. Your chamber is what matters, not someone’s interpretation of what your chamber should be. You already have your chamber measured: you stated that factory ammo has .005" of headspace, but FL sizing creates .013" of headspace. So what you should do is back off the die an eighth of a turn. This will result in .004" of headspace which is just right for an auto.
FWIW, according to SAAMI specs the maximum acceptable headspace for .223 Rem is 0.014 in. This is found by subtracting the minimum cartridge HS from the maximum chamber HS.
Backing off the sizing die for optimum headspace is not unusual. I like to see .002"-.004" case stretch on fired reloads in bolt action rifles and .003"-.005" case stretch on semi-automatic rifles. Overstretching the case during the firing cycle could cause the case to split and you to get a face full of hot gas.
If you size brass to the correct measurement from the base of the brass to the datum line and the round will not chamber, the case web is usually the culprit. I have run into this on rifles with tight chambers when I use brass not fired out of that particular rifle. In that instance you may need a small base die. I have separate sets of dies set up for my AR-10 loads and my bolt action loads.
Owning a loaded cartridge gauge is not expensive and not a bad idea. Checking each rifle cartridge before boxing them up will save you some headaches on the range. Humans make mistakes and you don’t want to find one of your mistakes in the middle of a match.
I respectfully disagree with those who state you don’t need a case gauge, not all MIL-SPEC chambers are the same. I have 2 different rifles one that will easily chamber cases bumped to the minimum the other won’t. Set to the minimum land on a case gauge and you’ll be good to go with any MIL-SPEC or Wylde .223 chamber. Depending on the press you may or may not have to set the dies/shellplate to slightly cam over. My XL650 with Dillon dies does ever so slightly.
That is not necessarily true. It doesn’t necessarily depend on the head spacing being at max but more on how hot of a load you repeatably load. I get 5-6 loads with the M4Carbine TAC load.
You will not get 5-6 loadings when the headspace is set to .013" with a load that reliably cycles the action. If you section such a case you’ll see why.
Well worth having. I bought mine to see where I was on setting the shoulder for a SCAR-H (7.62x51 chamber), vs where I was guessing (after backing off my .308 sizer die). It was well worth the money and is superior to a case gauge, but I still use my case gauges for a quick reference.
It’s a little difficult to get reliable readings at first, but works well after you get the hang of it. FWIW, I needed no changes to my .223/5.56 dies. Those were set using the poor boy method: Backing out the sizer die until I started to see stuck cases (using dummy loads) and then working back from there.
Here is LoneWolfUSA’s related video (he post a weekly “Mail Call Monday” video on Snipers Hide). This one is on cartridge HS tools, including the Hornady tool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3ECQg1nK0
Sir, I get 5-6 loading out of all my LC cases. It is all metallurgy not necessarily the math for the head spacing. I size and trim to 1.750 on a XL650 with a RT1200B every firing. I know for a fact that with the load I use that the brass does not grow as much as one thinks from firing to firing.
By the way just for curiosity sake. I randomly selected a half dozen mixed cases from my ready to load bin. With my Hornady head space gauge 0.0122 average.
I know that asking for a definitive conclusion is probably asking too much, but here goes…
Given that I’m ONLY loading for my rifle, and I’m not concerned about my ammunition fitting in anybody else’s rifle, it sounds like I should just knock back the shoulder .004" or so, and not aim to make my reloads fit in a case gauge. Right?
Background: I’ve successfully loaded 10,000s of rounds of pistol cartridges over the last 15+ years, and now I’m gearing up to load rifle rounds.
Short answer is YES. Though personally my feeling are: why wouldn’t you want to ensure any load will fit the minimums of a MIL-SPEC chamber?
I load for more than one rifle and in most cases take a back up rifle for matches or classes. I want to make sure whatever rifle I take that the loads I have will run in the gun.
