My take on Arsenal:
Configurations offered: A
Bulgarian factory quality: B
Quality of Nevada rework for 922(r) compliance: F
Paint Quality: D
Customer Service: FU
I do not see any investment potential on mass-produced commodity guns.
Which is exactly my point. They are importing them now for $1400 retail I believe. AK’s seem to be the only rifles that I see this happening with and I own quite varied collection. Even stuff that was brought in during the ban is going for three times as much as it originally sold for. The same can’t be said for a lot of other types of rifles unless it’s to a ban state only type thing.
I’ve owned probably three dozen Arsenal AK’s and only had issues with one.
I owned several over a period of 20 years. Multiple issues. Some problems required minor adjustments (like rattly receiver covers), others required a return to Arsenal for repair. When I switched back to AR’s in 2010 I didn’t have ANY issues for about eight years. I sold all my AK’s and haven’t looked back.
How much are your AR’s worth now? How much are those AK’s worth now? Most of the AK’s I bought or let go are worth two to three times what I paid.
I generally don’t buy firearms expecting their value to appreciate.
I buy them for use and SHTF (which I had to give up a lot of due to a huge tax bill).
In the case of AR’s I concentrated on Colts because I thought they would hold their value better long-term than some other brand that might not be around in a few years.
I literally have one AR left that might appreciate in value because it’s a discontinued Colt model with the restricted rollmark.
I think all the Colt AR’s will appreciate in value at some point- probably the only AR’s that actually will long term.
Regarding SAN, SVDs, AMTs, and many other imported guns started expensive, then became painfully expensive. Nobody can guarantee that SAN guns will have the same fate, but they stand a decent chance.
B&T is tricky. While they’re not rare or special now, their stratospheric pricing throttles the number of them that actually make it into circulation. 10 more years will reveal a lot there.
I sold off my gun collection in three ~$30k chunks. What sucked hardest was that finding buyers for firearms over $2000.00 takes considerably more time than guns under that number and your return isn’t great. Definitely a bell curve there. What sucked second most was shipping 20 1200 round crates of Bulgarian 7.62x54R!
In practice, I’m similar to you. I just buy what I want and don’t think too hard about it. This stuff can absorb you.
Here are all that I’ve owned and what happened to them:
SLR-95MB: No problems.
106CR: Multiple feeding & ejection issues, three trips back to Arsenal NV and they replaced it.
106CR (replacement): Same thing as above. Turns out this was a used rifle with a lower s/n than my first one. They refunded my money.
106UR: Multiple feeding & ejection issues, three trips back to Arsenal NV and they refunded my money.
107UR: FS/GB canted. Turns out that the monkey in NV that installed it misdrilled the FS/GB pin which cracked the FS/GB. He drilled again anyway and sent it out. They replaced the FS/GB. I chopped the barrel and it runs fine now.
104FR: No problems.
104UR: Received at my dealer with twisted receiver cover. Turns out the rear sight on the receiver cover was rubbing on the edge of the box and it got smashed during shipment. A proper shipping box would have avoided this problem. They replaced the receiver cover with another, but didn’t engrave the serial number. I had to pay to get that done myself. I chopped the barrel and it runs fine now.
106CR: After a decade passed since the previous 106CR’s, I figured they had ironed out the problems. I was wrong. Rifle was massively overgassed, so much so that it broke the tail off of the disconnector in short order. Sent it back and they replaced the disconnector but did nothing to fix the overgassing problem. I called them and they claimed that I should send it back because the feed ramp area was defective. I decided that I’d fix this rifle myself, so I chopped the barrel which resolved the overgassing problem. It was still having some feed issues, so I tried Polish Beryl magazines. The rifle now runs fine so long as I use the Beryl magazines.
So, Arsenal is 2 of 8 for me. Keep in mind that the first one was not modified by Arsenal NV at all. Arsenal NV is 1 of 7 for me. Arsenal quality is a myth. Like I said, I’m an AK whore, so I subject myself to this against all common sense because the configurations they offer are great. After fixing 3, the 5 that I have now run fine.
I’ve owned a lot more than that and I don’t have these problems. I have about a dozen Arsenal AK’s now- no issues. FYI- they only made 106’s for one year, 2006 date code 46.
You have a lot better luck than me. Or, did you stay clear of the 5.56x45 models? The issues with the 107UR and 104UR were just bad random luck due to poor assembly and packaging. The 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 models have all functioned fine from the start. FYI, I just checked my current 106CR. As you said, it has a 46 (2006) date code. My guess is that’s the year they made the trunnions, but who knows? If they did actually assemble them all in 2006, that would certainly explain why the latest one that I received was no better than the first two when it comes to reliability. 13 years is a long time to keep something in inventory. Given the issues with the 5.56x45 models, they certainly would have had plenty of time to rework them.
Yah, all the 106’s were built in 2006 or at least the bulk of the components were built then since they all have the same date code. They had a hard time selling the 106’s because for a long time the 74 types, 104 and 105 were undercutting them- basically the ammo was cheap so people bought those instead. I’m the guy that came up with the concept of the 5.56 AKM/100 series type model that ended up becoming the SLR-106FR. I had a proto-type built by Ted Marshall in the late 90’s on a Norinco 84s receiver but using Bulgarian milled 5.56 bolt/carrier/barrel, a 74 folding stock, and a modified original Norinco trunnion. Then I convinced Arsenal to produce a factory variant when I was a member of their old MIG/ETA forum prior to the sunset of the 94 ban. They finally agreed and started building them around 2006.
They had issues with the early production runs because they made several changes to the magazine feed lips. The same issue krept up in their SAM5 lines- basically they removed centering tabs on the magazines, that ended up not being able to feed properly. I then came up with a slight modification to the barrel’s feed ramp bevel- to lower and widen the feed ramp. Once this is done they generally run without issues. Now there were some issues with the 106CR and 106UR which were a separate issue altogether that had to do with the higher pressure 5.56 rounds where some ended up getting a restricter grommet to reduce gas pressure. Ones without the grommet were over gassed with the extended barrel and needed to be SBR’d to reduce pressure. I can do a whole write up on the development of the 106 series, I have pictures of the old proto-type I had built saved on another hard drive if interested.
Here’s a link to my original write up that goes over the feed ramp bevel modifications that I submitted to Arsenal to help them fix the feed ramp issues. Sorry it’s a hotlink to the other site but this is where I originally did a write up on the mods that I developed for the production variants. The feedramp modifications weren’t fully introduced until the later production runs so some of the earlier ones still have that same feeding issue if using certain mags- however it’s easy to check to see if it’s done or not and fix yourself if needed.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AK-47/5-56-Feed-Ramp-Fix/76-106540/
RR77
So much for AK indestructibility if a poor shipping box resulted in it being damaged!
Arsenal quality is a myth. .
They were experts at marketing. My true Bulgarian SLR95’s were all GTG. It’s the Arsenal of Las Vegas that was full of lies and quality control screw ups. I should probably thank them: all my trials and tribulations with Arsenal finally woke me out of my “AK’s are superior” fog and let me consider the AR. Since switching to the AR I’ve been mostly satisfied.
Thanks for the link. I’ll check my 106CR out to see if the feed ramp modification has been done. That might explain why it runs 100% with Beryl magazines, but not the circle ten waffles. Nothing explains why Arsenal NV would receive a rifle back that’s so obviously overgassed and do nothing to rectify the problem. This thing literally ejected Russian 223Rem 20 yards and so fast that you couldn’t see the cases until they were past the peak of their trajectory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2QDsr5hzzk
I’m sure the shipping box magically damaged the rifle- not some outside force. I mean AK’s can survive drop tests that would completely destroy an AR but nothing is invincible. As far as Arsenal Vegas unbanning rifles- they need to tighten up their quality controls but personally I’ve had very few problems overall. I think their newer milled variants are good to go. Stamped guns required installing the rear trunnions for the folding stocks, opening up the magwells, and populating the barrels.
Hand feed some dummy rounds very slowly to see where the tip of the bullet is hitting, try it across several mags. I used live rounds for those photos hand feeding them letting them get damaged like that but in hindsight- probably not the best idea. Yah your rifle doesn’t have the restrictor grommet so it’s overgassed until you chop the barrel. It broke the disconnector- which is a cheap part. Just chop the barrel and get it SBR’d or have an AK USA extension installed.
I was being facetious. I’m sure that rifle left the factory with the damage already there. The monkeys at Arsenal probably installed the receiver cover with a hammer.
I got an SA-85M underfolder pre-ban once that the receiver got physically bent during shipping. I have no clue how it happened, I sent it off, had the receiver bent back into alignment. It still ran fine.
I chopped the barrel myself. That and the Beryl mags have it running 100%.
It was definitely damaged in shipment. The evidence was on the box. The box would have been fine for other models, but the rear sight on the krink top cover was right up against the side of the box. Something got pressed up against the box and bent it. When they replaced it, Arsenal NV did crap job on forming the ends of the pin that holds the replacement top cover in place.
I’ve watched your videos and monitored your complaining about Arsenal for some time both here and on the AKforum. I feel bad that they didn’t address the issues but a lot of that had to do with them not knowing how to fix those issues- that’s why I relented and helped them with the feed ramp bevel fix. Perhaps in your case with the 106CR, you may have a feed ramp issue and maybe the Beryl mags sit up a little higher or perhaps help push the nose of the round more toward the center- not sure. I always hand feed mine watching things to make sure I won’t have issues as I showed how to address in those photos.
I wouldn’t call it “complaining”, but rather sharing the details of my experiences. I like to do this on the forums whenever members discuss any gun that I own and I think most appreciate this. I for sure appreciate others detailing their experiences as I’d rather learn from their experiences then get caught in the same pitfalls myself. Of course experiences can be both positive and negative. Positive, like “my $179 MAK-90 that’s never malfunctioned went through another 200rds today” doesn’t take as much to elaborate on as a negative experience. As for them not knowing how to fix the issues with my rifles, my goodness. They are the factory. If the ones who designed and manufactured a gun don’t know how to make it work, then they shouldn’t sell it. There’s certainly no excuse for them selling the same unreliable rifles 13 years later.