Anyone have some trigger time on this rifle? I am scouring the forums to find out if people like this platform or not. The little I have heard is excellent! I am on the fence between, this an LWRC M6A2 or a SCAR. Let me know. Thanks
If you want a piston gun, get a SCAR. If you want an AR thats ready to rock from the factory with great features, get a DD rifle.
What are you doing that makes you think you will need a piston gun? A DI will be just as reliable in 99% of conditions if lubed properly. I’m sure you can save weight, cost, and headache by simply getting a DI. There are no real advantages to a piston that outweigh the cost of the heavier, more front-heavy, more complex rifle you get from having one. DI gets a bad wrap from companies like Bushmaster that put out a sub-standard product, however if Bushmaster put together a piston gun, it would be just as un-reliable simply due to the fact Bushy has no clue when it comes to putting an actual reliable rifle together. Give a company like Daniel Defense or BCM a chance, as they actually know what they are doing when it comes to AR’s, and will are almost be guaranteed to fit your needs.
With all do respect I am looking for a piston. I am not a hater of DI. In fact I absolutely love the KAC SR15 (Silky soft, my favorite!!), DD, BCM (Best Value), and Noveske. They are the cream of the crop of the DI. But a DI even lube approaching the 2k round count needs to be cleaned. The Gas Block starts getting gunked up and will fail to cycle the bolt. My BCM will come but for now I want another piston. I have a SR-556C and an ACR but really want one really stellar piston whether AR or something else. I am looking to sell the Ruger and the ACR get one Piston and then a BCM or KAC…then an AK
I have about a 4500 rd count on my BCM 12.5" SBR (alot of that with a suppressor and with Wolf ammo) since I last cleaned it and it still runs like a dream, without any problems. I don’t know what kind of rifle you have that NEEDS a cleaning after 2k rounds, but I’d get rid of it if I were you and get something that’s quality that you can run for thousands of rounds without cleaning and with proper lube. I’ve never heard of a gas block getting so “gunked up” that the rifle doesn’t run.
I too have never heard of a gasblock getting so gunked up, it stops cycling. :blink:
That’s a whole-nother topic though and it doesnt address your querry so back on point… I agree with Mr. Goodtimes. If you want a piston, get the SCAR or a known-good platform that was designed for the piston system. I have nothing against the scar or any other piston platform. I just think the system itself does not belongs on an AR. It just wasnt designed for it and applying it to the platform causes more problems than it “solves”.
Dont have extensive experience with many DI and it has been sometime since I attended a carbine class much I dont remember and need to attend another. I vaguely remember several bushmaster…once again this was so time ago. Many of them went down throughout the course. The instructor was clear about keeping the gun lubed during the course. Some still stopped and sat out to clean and help improve their rifles so they could continue with the course. The cleaning did seem to help and they made it through the course but it did leave me wondering why if it was lubed enough? I was shoulder a buddies Olympia Arms…ok commence laughter. I was as green as they come and only shoot an AR once prior. I wish I could remember more about that course but the significant amount of stoppage occurred at that course surprised me. I dont believe the instructor is even around anymore but I am looking to get a new rifle and take another course for now I believe I would do better. I have a little more cash in my pocket and want to treat myself to something nice. As I stated I love the SR15 and really like the BCM! Of the DI it is very nice but my post is about the Mk114. Hearing the 4500k and no cleaning is quite nice something I didnt think was typical. But BCM is an excellent rifle and seems to be a great value and of some of the highest quality parts around…you guys are making me have second thoughts. I am not overlly impressed with my Ruger and my ACR is a boat anchor. I have not shot the ACR for I just dont like the weight at all and balance. Being unshot I can hopefully get what I paid for it. So that is why I am not shooting it. The MK114 is something different. It is light, balanced, reasonable on the wallet, and seems quite reliable but it is new and that scares me. It is a soft shooter and uses a long stroke piston so the weight is better positioned not to mention its an AK style piston…AK are very reliable but not as accurate. I do like the ergos on an AR just because I am use to it. The MK114 is aroung 1450 and it is setup pretty nice for that price. The BCM is around 1200 for the recce 16. Weight is similar, balance, parts are gonna be super easy to replace so it certainly has all that going. Just my 2 cents. But I am not completely eliminating a DI, the MK114 just caught my eye and I havent heard one bad thing yet.
Ya, unfortunately, the samples you had at this particularly class were bushies and an oly. If youre really set on a piston, again, get a platform designed for a piston and not a piston AR.
The BCM is around 1200 for the recce 16. Weight is similar, balance, parts are gonna be super easy to replace so it certainly has all that going.
Absolutely right on this one, although, I doubt anything would need to replacement anytime soon, if at all.
Im sure you’ll be perfectly happy with a DI. Check out this article on Filthy14. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:xZ3xlupXoywJ:www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf+filthy14&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgPJmBeA-j08YgC6njAmxAHeLyc5Ce9KE_BF00bVKScLJVXLHX5xfv0sL53EGTqYOS_CL3Qjf8o4AIUaWhbeGExQm0d2dVmjBdBJT1sGOBCGIyhkrqb4pyT-5iRGMIH9dQm41kd&sig=AHIEtbSBgKSTzJ-shq18fiDzTkWJdFSojg
I own an AR in 5.45x39. I use corrosive surplus ammo in it. I am a notorious lazy slob when it comes to weapon maintenance. That is why I so love the AK and the Glock. When I decided to go 5.45x39 with an AR I did EXTENSIVE research on the matter. I debated the possibility of doing a piston conversion to help ease cleaning. After MUCH research about piston systems in an AR I decided that I would be much better off sticking with DI and spending the piston money on getting the gun done in NP3, which I did and it works great and dramatically simplifies cleaning.
I have one friend who has an LWRC M6A2 and another who has a PWS diablo in 7.62x39. They both run great. I also know a police officer who briefly had a a POF gun (don’t remember the designation). The reason why the police officer had the POF only briefly is because it never worked correctly and after 3 trips back to POF for non existent or crappy customer service which failed to resolve the issue, he gave up.
First off, I would not get a piston AR. IF I did get a piston AR it would be either a new (so that a previous owner did mess with it and for warranty reasons) complete upper or preferably a complete rifle from either LWRC or PWS, ONLY, PERIOD.
LWRC addressrd carrier tilt in part by modifying the carrier. PWS took a very different and unique approach different than all other AR piston systems. PWS uses a long stroke AK type piston and the piston itself serves as a guide rod to help reduce carrier tilt issues. In addition they also use a buffer tube that helps as well.
What somebody needs to do is a make an all brand new piston upper that has a rectangular cross section and just so happens to fit on an AR lower (and preferably allows for a folding stock or at least does not send a carrier into the stock tube).
TED
Assuming that you have to clean an AR every 2000 rounds regardless of needing to lube it, what on earth are you doing that you can’t take ten minutes of your time to go do it? Basically, you’d have to clean your rifle maybe 10 times across the barrel’s lifespan - two hours total for the life of the weapon. The horror!
Seriously, what justifies getting a system the AR was not designed for? Soldiers carry an 1/8 of that much ammo on them when they go on patrol and I seriously doubt you’re going to be in a harsher situation than that.
Whatever you do… DON’T GIVE THE SCUM AT LWRC any business.
Damn Markm what happened? I have heard mostly good about LWRC. But back to my original post…no one knows about the MK114?
I don’t think that you will find too much information on piston guns here in general, much less the Mk114. Generally piston guns cost too much and create more problems than they solve. While the Mk114 may very well have solved most of the problems associated with piston guns, it’s still an answer in search of a question.
In my opinion after having put thousands of rounds through DI AR’s, a piston AR is a complete waste of money. I’ve put a few thousand rounds through my BCM midlength upper with the only cleaning being wiping down the BCG/upper receiver and adding lube. It has yet to have a malfunction of any kind.
I think you would be much better off buying a good quality DI gun. You’ll not only save money but parts will be easier to find. If you want a modern piston driven combat rifle, get a SCAR. I’m personally going to keep buying DI AR’s until Remington releases a civilian version of the ACR that is exactly like the military one and from what I understand, that’s somewhere between a long time from now and never.
Please excuse markm - he hates lwrc for good reason I am sure. Now they are LWRCI, so that is where you should be aiming.
I have 2 and cannot be happier with them. 10.5" and 16" Lots of cheap crappy ammo and carbine courses to boot. Full Auto and suppressed.
A piston AR is simply another option in what is one of the largest markets for alterations and accessories. Glad this is not the dreaded piston vs DI debate, as I own and love a host of DI rifles of all sorts and do believe in proper lube and regular cleaning to keep rifles in optimal condition no matter what.
SCAR is a great rifle too. I will opt for a 17 in 7.62 over a 16 in 5.56 though, if you can find the mags. The trigger on a SCAR-16 is just too crappy for me and although the aftermarket is ever expanding, IMHO its not there yet, but past LMT, the AR-10 world has been shaky.
If you are a true collector, get one of each 
Hey SBP, I bought a PWS Mk114 a while back to try something different as a training carbine and to perhaps bring it out on patrol with me after I wring it out a bit. My department currently issues Colts to the officers that want to carry a long gun besides the ol’ 870.
I was a bit wary seeing the trend of piston op systems being put in a chassis built for DI. I think you may have already made up your mind though.
That being said, I’ve been nothing but pleased with my decision to buy the PWS. The upper is designed from the ground up to be a different animal. It is not like any of the piston systems I’ve had the opportunity to handle. It is a long stoke piston system. It is very simple. No gas adjustment. Also the top rail is the same height as the standard flat-top upper so the that opens up your choices regarding sighting /optics mounts.
It’s well balanced and has been very reliable (no failures, but only about a 1000rds through it). Accurate as any of the colts in the armory and LMT’s that our SWAT guys have.
As far as the no cleaning thing goes…I don’t shoot without cleaning afterward (good opportunity to inspect the weapon). However I don’t have to spend hardly anytime cleaning the PWS.
The triggers is well…meh, adequate. A RRA two-stage would be an inexpensive improvement over what’s on the Mk114. These are just my observations so-far as I’ve not had ton of time on this weapon.
Having said that I would always suggest getting to know the AR15/M16 platform insideout buy purchasing a quality DI gun. Especially if it’s going to be a weapon you’re going to stake your life on. The maintenance support is great. All the piston systems are proprietary and unless you are an armorer on that system you could be without a weapon for weeks or longer should something go wrong.
Whatever you happen to get, shoot the crap out of it and have fun.
Thanbks SteelToe, finally great to hear from someone who has one. How is the muzzle climb compared to your departments colts. Most of the departments around here are Rock River. Which to be honest is quite an accurate rifle and the trigger is pretty nice! But I am wondering about muzzle rise. My SR-556C climbs quite a bit more then I like and since the flash hider is pinned looks like I am stuck. The Recoil is just ok as well on the 556C. I keep bringing it up for it is what I have the most trigger time on. It is a solid rifle built pretty well and feels nice. It is nose heavy but dressed to the gills!! But back to my questions, muzzle rise, recoil (I know PWS puts one of there brakes on there which are generally very good but loud, so I am assuming second shoot acquisition is pretty damn good. I am going to take a cabine course and then try my hand at 3-gun. So I am looking for something that is decent for second shots, fast, balanced, light…etc. Let me know. Thanks
Came across a pretty extensive review on Snipershide:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2202139&gonew=1#UNREAD
Thanks Kchen, That is pretty much the only review I have read on the MK114. It is pretty good and makes me wonder. Seems this long stroke piston design is done right. The weights and balance seem excellent!
OK sorry for the late reply. So I went out Friday morning and put another 100rds down range and zeroed an eotech. once I got dialed I did some close quarters doubles and triples. I wasn’t any faster with the Mk114 than any of the dept Colts. However the triples were very tight. I suppose I could push my speed up a little to see how well the SM556 works compared to a regular birdcage. Overall it “seemed” more controllable but with semi auto only, it’s not that hard to control any AR/m4/m16. If I get the chance to get out when SWAT is at our range I’ll try a couple bursts F/A. That’s probably where the comp is going to really show you what it can do.
I didn’t have time to hangout much longer and find out (didn’t want my teammates shagging calls in my beat). Good luck with whatever you finally decide to get.
Thanks again steel. I dont have a lot of ARs to compare to but My SR-556C has more muzzle rise then I like. Recoil I could care less about…they are all the same but the rise is a difference maker. The Flash Hider is pinned so I would have get the barrel cut and have one pinned. I am very hesitant in doing this. Cost wise, BC $150, plus the removal $40, pin $30, another $120 to thread…this is their quote to me…I dont know if this is right or not!! So I am looking at $340 bucks to add a Battlecomp 1.5 to my SR-556C. Second shoot recovery is fair at best on the 556C. More rise then the other ARs I have shot. Some might have to do with the rounds we are shooting (1st 300-500 were sheriff department reloads so I am not 100% certain on what they were. So what brings me to my departure of the SR-556C is this mere cost to make this rifle better at doubles and triple. The weight in the front is another. Although the 556C is lighter then the 556 it is still not as balanced…much of the weight is in the nose. It is a very nice rifle. But it has carrier tilt (I just sent it in to see if ruger will replace the carrier with the newer more rounded end version). Overall I like the 556C but more because of how it was outfitted then how it actually performs. Carrier Tilt, balance, permanent rail, and the pinned A2 flash hider are leaving me desiring something more suitable. I am considering a build…LMT lower, BCM upper (W/DD quad)…etc. But when I look at a built it still gets in the same neighborhood cost wise as this MK114 which seems to be a piston AR that is dont right. The other route is a SCAR or non-ar. I have an ACR but it is way heavy! And not balanced. Ergos are really nice! Sorry for the long post but now I think you guys might understand my feeling and why I am looking at what I am. Not knocking the SR-556C at all it just wont do what I want without sinking in some cash I will not get out and cant fully achieve my goals of a light, balanced, controllable AR, that is 100% reliable with even the crappiest ammo out.