PWS MK1-series owners

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I bought a PWS MK 110 and am actually pretty impressed with the rifle. I haven’t gotten a lot of hands on time with it because I’m in Afghanistan and I’m still waiting on my ATF paperwork.

I’ve searched the net for reviews on the MK1 series rifles, particularly the MK 110, but mostly come up with stuff on the MK 107 Diablo, and none of it is really all that detailed.

I’ve just been fairly curious as to what others’ first hand opinions of this rifle are. I’m not asking for whether or not people like piston guns or think I should have gone with a DI gun. I don’t give a shit. I did my research, and yes, I know there are proven DI guns out there and piston systems are unnecessary and all that other crap that is standard answer.

Basically all I am asking for is first hand accounts from people who either, preferably own, or have handled or shot these rifles. Again, particularly the MK 110, but the MK1 series in general as well.

2

Not sure if he has it on here but member DMack has an extensive review of the Mk110 on the Snipers Hide forum.

3

Awesome. Thanks.

4

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2671395&page=1

I just received a sweet little carbine by PWS. I am doing a long term test and evaluation on the PWS MK114. I mounted a TA31F ACOG on it and other than changing out the MILSPEC trigger that it came with to a Geissele SSA, I am running the gun just the way it came to me.

I took it out on the range yesterday, got a good 100m zero with M855 ammo, and then pulled the pins, sat the upper on my auto lower, and ripped six PMags through it as fast as it could dump the mag.

Not a SINGLE issue. I told Todd that I would punish the rifle, just not abuse it. We shot a few drills with the MK114 fully auto, then I ran my 10.5" N4, and my 14.5" Colt… to check the muzzle rise… and I must say, the PWS compensator is amazing.

I didn’t get any pics or video, since we had a team in working with us. However, I will have a range day again on Monday. I’ll show how it groups at 100m with the M855.

This is a “Long Stroke” Gas Piston gun… that operates like an AK. Todd told me it’s basically an AR with AK DNA. Well, so far, I like!!!

Here’s a few pics of me taking it out of the box.

It comes with the MAGPUL MOE Stock, Grip, and Flip Up Sights. It also comes with two full length “SCAR” type rail covers, and three short ones… I believe these are the Tango Down Rail Covers. The front rail, is unlike any out there. They are four individual MIL-STD-1913 rails, with the top forming an uninterrupted length from the upper receiver. It is also longer than the lower three rails, so you can put your front flip up sight further out. This is a 14.5" barrel with a 1:8 twist. It’s chambered for 5.56, and the compensator is the PWS SM556 Compensator. They also spec it out with a Bravo Company “Gun Fighter” Charging handle… it’s the “small” latch, and my personal preference is the large… but, it works fine with the ACOG mounted.

The fit and finish on this rifle, is flawless. The upper and lower are tight, with no noticeable “wobble”. The trigger that ships with the rifle is a standard MILSPEC trigger, that leaves MUCH to be desired. I am SO used to shooting with Giessele triggers, that I have become a bit of a “trigger snob”… LOL

The buffer tube is also the PWS proprietary “enhanced buffer tube”… which does not use the standard castle nut. It also has two provisions for QD sling mounts… not shipped with the rifle.

The BCG is unlike anything I have seen on an AR platform. It is very light weight, has a great profile, and comes out of the upper like a normal AR BCG, with one exception. The charging handle is captured by the long piston.



5

Is it o.k. to resurrect this?

I am also interested in the MK1-series. My short version, I recently bought a very gently used (looks like-new) AR-15, YHM lower and a DPMS upper. It shoots fine, no problems, however it’s a 20" and I really think a middy or carbine would fit my needs better. Looking around, in addition to the usual suspects, I read about piston variants and the PWS seems like the best bet for me (seems well-thought out and reasonably priced). I have nothing against the DI versions, I just like the idea of the piston-AR15 and the AK-style piston DNA in an AR-15 seems to have a lot of appeal. I’ve read DMack’s review and a few other owners’ opinions, which generally seem pretty positive. All this has got me considering trading my AR in for a PWS (or swapping uppers), or saving up for an additional AR (whole or upper). Anyway, I’m wondering a few things.

First, are there any negatives to them? I’m thinking any functional issues that may be reported or any model-specific parts that may be hard to get replacements for or the like. How is recoil (including the SBRs below) compared to a carbine or middy? I’m also curious how the FDE finished ones hold up (regarding their finish).

Second, how different are the SBR variants (MK107 [Diablo?], MK110) compared to the MK114 and MK116? I’m inclined to go with an MK114 if I go that route since I’ve heard they balance better, however that’s really about the only difference I’ve heard. As for the SBR variants, I have not seen a ton written about them or how hard they are on the BCG or accuracy or much of anything else.

Third, PWS uppers vs. the whole guns. I have read that the one major difference is their enhanced buffer tube which works better with their system. Are there any compelling reasons to just buy a whole PWS MK1* as opposed to just slapping a MK1 upper (and PWS buffer tube) on an already-owned lower? This is the classic “I’d like one but I’m trying to be a little economic about my purchase” scenario.

Anyway I thought I’d re-open this thread rather than starting a new one on basically the same thing. And if there is any good reason to go with a specific PWS, or another direction, I’m all ears. Either way, I’m hoping this sparks some good discussion. Thanks in advance!

-Cheers

6

Here’s a short observation summary I did on Arf about my MK110 and M4-2000.

Quite frankly, for the price you would pay for an upper and PWS BE, you’re better off just buying a complete gun.

My thoughts from Arf and by no means is this a complete review, which I plan on doing shortly:

I love my M4-2000. It’s a great suppressor. I’m using the brake mount for mine because of the barrel length. I won’t lie to you and tell you it’s been all roses. My MK110 runs great unsuppressed, as I’m sure yours does. With the suppressor on it was having a couple gassing issues during rapid fire. I sent her in to PWS and they upgraded mine to the new Bravo spec so mine is no essentially a MK110B which is the newest iteration of the MK110. They tweaked the gas system based on reports of a few rifles here and there that wouldn’t run correctly with the suppressor mounted, using my SD3G or a friend’s RDIAS. Slow fire, she ran fantastic with the suppressor and sounded great, but those quicker rates of fire would make her starve a bit.

With a suppressor mounted, I would recommend you use an H3. It’s what they recommend and for good reason. I ran mine with everything from the factory carbine weight buffer to H3. Unfortunately, nothing I could do would fix my issue, so I ended up sending her in. I talked to Stacey on the phone initially before doing an RMA. He said that it was a known issue, but not common. Actually, before I ever picked up the rifle I had talked to him about it as well and he had said something similar.

As far as mounting the suppressor, I never had any issues with zero shift or suppressor wiggle/wobble/ect whatever you want to call it. My suppressor did however butt up against the front of the rail system, and has a couple of wear marks in the finish from where I cranked her down against it. From day one with my MK110 it was dead balls accurate. I took her out and got the irons zeroed, then cowitnessed the Aimpoint PRO before throwing the M4-2000 on her. The only shift in zero I got was 1" elevation at 100 yards. I actually attribute that to the velocity increase of using a suppressor though, other than an actual “zero shift”.

If you do end up getting a suppressor and run into any sort of problems, PWS will definitely take care of you. They have excellent CS and their warranty department is quick to get shit done too. I plan on doing a pretty extensive review once I actually get to go crank on her hard and pay attention to everything rather than just dicking around and/or trying to figure out why she was gassing so weird.

Overall, my opinion of both the MK110 and the M4-2000 is that both are fantastic at what they do and are a perfect pair. Just know that there is potential for your upper to run into gassing issues, as do all 10.5" uppers. With DGI uppers, it’s a little bit easier to build an upper that WILL run suppressed, but that doesn’t mean it will be pleasant. I’ve shot a couple of 10.5/10.3" uppers that were absolutely aweful, in my opinion of course, but they ran reliably. The MK110/MK110B uppers are comfortable and fun to shoot suppressed/unsuppressed and are also supposed to be extremely reliable. Mine just happened to be one of the few that happened to not quite like getting a can hung off the front and rapid fired.

As for your MK114, I very seriously doubt that you would have any sort of problems what so ever running it suppressed. I’ve seriously used the HELL out of my M4-2000. As in, the only finish left on it is right around the base of the mounting ratchet and just a little bit on the end cap. It’s turned a very silver/goldish color with a pretty big brownish/bronze colored spot right in the middle of it, but it’s solid. It’s dirty and you can tell it’s in good shape. No baffle or endcap strikes and I’ve never had an issue with the mounting system for it. She goes on nice and comes off the same way, she sounds great, and is really sturdy. I wouldn’t say it’s a complaint, and it’s not even really that bad, but it is noticeable; the “gas blowback” is pretty noticable, even with the MK110. It’s actually not all that bad, not really even to the point of being unpleasant. It’s just an obvious and noticable difference, just expect that.

One thing I do really like about the MK110/M4-2000 combo is that it comes in at an OAL right around what an off the shelf 16" barreled AR15 would come it at. I have a 5.11 COVRT-M4 bag that is made to fit a 16" barreled AR in it with the buttstock collapsed and my MK110 fits perfectly in it. When I get the chance, I’ll take some pictures. I’ll probably just post them when I do my review on the MK110, M4-2000, and I’ll just do the bag too.

7

Thanks for the summary. I’m looking forward to your full review.

May I could ask for a PWS recommendation? I have a used AR-15, YHM lower, DPMS 20" upper. It shoots fine, and at worst it is a nice plinker, however I know I’d like something to either supplement or supplant it, obviously the PWS MK1 series being right there at the top of the list. I could go carbine/mid-length and get an MK114 or MK116. I’d also be interested in arguments for a SBR. I’m guessing the 16" makes the most sense (hence the 116, or 114 which has the pinned SM556 muzzle device), however I have not really looked into SBRs so I’d be interested in hearing more about the MK110, MK109, or MK107 (Diablo).

Also, would it make sense if I add a second one to stick with the 5.56 or go with something like the 300 BLK? I’m thinking of just sticking with the 5.56/.223 due to ammo availability and the fact that I’m not sure which of the other available alt-rounds are as likely to stick around.

I’m just fishing for opinions. For the ammo it’s chambered in, I’m not sure if there is a right answer, but I’ll listen to any thoughts. As for the SBR’s, I’m more curious if there is a good argument for one (for me), and how different they are in terms of accuracy, reliability, longevity, recoil, etc., etc. If this is discussed elsewhere feel free to just post a link.

-Cheers

8

Depending on what your requirements are, there’s no reason not to go with an SBR. The 10.5" MK110 has more than enough ass, ballisticly for the kind of shooting I do most regularly. If I need to shoot any farther than 2-300 yards, something seriously went wrong and I need a bigger stick anyway. The MK112-116 are all carbine gas, the new MK110b is a tweaked version of a carbine gas system that’s unique to it alone, due to common gassing issues with 10.3/10.5" barrels. The MK107 uses a pistol length gas system, similar to all other piston or DGI 7.5" guns.

As far as caliber, what you plan on doing with the gun should dictate. You want a high end rifle that eats cheap ass Russian surplus? Get one in 7.62x39. You want a standard M4 style variant and are happy with 5.56/.223? Or are you going to use it to hunt with on a regular basis? If so, maybe 300BLK is the way to go.

In my opinion 300BLK is an awesome concept, but it really only has practical usefulness in an LE role. Sure, you can hunt with it, or use it for HD, but it’s a STUPID expensive option for either. 300BLK was designed to supplement/replace the 9mm MP5 in an entry teams’ arsenal while making forced entry. I’m not bashing it per we, but when I want to take the AR to the range, I don’t want the cheapest range ammo I can get to be just as expensive as mid to high end ammo in 5.56.

As for SBRs, they don’t suffer in accuracy, reliability, ect. Really, the only drawback is that they’re ballisticly inferior to their longer barreled counterparts. As I said though, a 10.5" barrel will do just about everything many people need an AR to do. There are plenty of other discussions talking about the merits and deficits of an SBR, including some great information here on M4c if you look for it.

9

Yeah, my requirements are largely going to be punching holes in paper most likely 300 yards or less. That and in the event of the end of the world or something. :wink: Seriously though, mostly for range use, not competition or dropping something from 1K yards out, and not for hunting (unless, again, EOTWAWKI, in which case I’ll pick up my dad’s 30-30).

The MK112-116 are all carbine gas, the new MK110b is a tweaked version of a carbine gas system that’s unique to it alone, due to common gassing issues with 10.3/10.5" barrels. The MK107 uses a pistol length gas system, similar to all other piston or DGI 7.5" guns.

O.k., an actual legitimate question. How different is recoil or wear-and-tear between the MK1 guns? Are the MK112-MK116 identical in longevity & recoil since they have the same carbine gas system? I’m guessing the MK110b and MK107 have more recoil and wear out a bit faster, however I’m not sure if being a piston system effects that or not.

As far as caliber, what you plan on doing with the gun should dictate. You want a high end rifle that eats cheap ass Russian surplus? Get one in 7.62x39. You want a standard M4 style variant and are happy with 5.56/.223? Or are you going to use it to hunt with on a regular basis? If so, maybe 300BLK is the way to go.

In my opinion 300BLK is an awesome concept, but it really only has practical usefulness in an LE role. Sure, you can hunt with it, or use it for HD, but it’s a STUPID expensive option for either. 300BLK was designed to supplement/replace the 9mm MP5 in an entry teams’ arsenal while making forced entry. I’m not bashing it per we, but when I want to take the AR to the range, I don’t want the cheapest range ammo I can get to be just as expensive as mid to high end ammo in 5.56.

Really, for now I think the 300BLK is overkill. It seems awesome, however I currently don’t hunt (and again, have a .30-30 at my disposal if I ever wanted to take it up). Even if I got a 7.62x39 I don’t see myself using cheap Russian surplus steel ammo. I’m anal about that sort of stuff and want to at least run something decent mid-level (brass and still smooth-running) even at the range to kill paper targets. So I’m generally inclined to stick with 5.56/.223 unless something else makes a lot of sense and is at least somewhat economical.

As for SBRs, they don’t suffer in accuracy, reliability, ect. Really, the only drawback is that they’re ballisticly inferior to their longer barreled counterparts. As I said though, a 10.5" barrel will do just about everything many people need an AR to do. There are plenty of other discussions talking about the merits and deficits of an SBR, including some great information here on M4c if you look for it.

I’m reading up on that as part of an ongoing process. There seems to be little need in my case, unless I go with a noise suppressor. This is actually something I’d be interested in looking into. Mainly to save hearing if I ever had to use it in a situation where I’m not around a set of readily available ear plugs (I’m not expecting that to ever happen, but might as well consider it). I’m not sure what would be my best length gun to go with in that case or how it would compare ballistically between say an MK114.

I’d probably only go below an MK114 if I could do so in a manner that would still last about as long (guessing the MK112 or at least the MK110 and under would have greater recoil and wear-&-tear for this rationale). However if an MK110 or MK112 would have about the same perceived recoil & longevity as say an MK114, be able to take a suppressor and maintain approximately the same ballistics, and overall be a practical-yet-fun gun, I think I’d be game paying the extra money and going through the hoops. I’m still reading up on that though and what my options and hoops would be in either converting my current lower into a designated SBR or just buying an MK112 or under. Call me a wuss, but I’d really like to avoid going to jail. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the replies. I hope we hear from more MK1 owners.

-Cheers

10

One more quick question. Is there any good rationale for choosing between the MK112, MK110, or 7" MK107 Diablo for a sound suppressor setup? The setup is kind of appealing, and a lot of people seem to like 10.5" SBR’s for this sort of however I am not sure how they actually come to settle on that barrel length. Also, specific to the PWS, I’m wondering about the differences between the 12/14/16 pistons vs. the 110 and 107 for that sort of use.

-Cheers

11

I bought an Addax ATAC Mk-1 back in 2009 which used the same PWS system. Great quality parts. I also thought the design for the piston was pretty common sense.

However…
I did have that dreaded carrier tilt/buffer tube wear after about 1200rnds.

Also, my friend had the same a similar model long stroke PWS, and the pin which held the 2 sections of piston together broke while firing. Needless to say, he had to send it in for a repair. His model was a 2010, and the malfunction occured in 2012 after about 2000 rounds. That pin seems to be a bit of a question mark in the over all reliability of the product, as I’ve seen a few other posts regarding it failing there.

Addax quickly repaired the upper and slapped on a bunch of updated parts as well. The new BCG looks like it had significant trimming and rounding along the edges to reduce wear and the piston itself looked a little different.

My model, aside from the buffer tube wear, never had any malfunctions or other problems. Addax/PWS seem to be continually updating their products, especially to reduce the additional wear potential of the gas pistons. They have new buffer tubes, the updated BCG design and the ZK series seems to be a bit of a direction change in the design of the piston itself. If I were you, keep an eye out for excessive wear. If necessary (and if you think it’s not a gimmick), some of those updates might be an option if carrier tilt/buffer tube wear becomes an issue. I don’t know of any AR-15 GPS that doesn’t have these carrier tilt problems to one degree or anyother, but I think Addax/PWS are some of the highest quality GPS’s out there.

12

How big a deal is carrier tilt & buffer tube wear? Can’t you just replace the buffer tube every few years (guessing on the timeline) and just call it a day? Also, are there any good “fixes” for that? I thought there was some kind of BCG “tube” or something that kept it from tilting in piston systems. Of course, naturally, I cannot find it and I am not sure if it would even work with the PWS system.

Or for that matter, wouldn’t/doesn’t the PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube solve that problem? That’s kind of the impression I got.
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=214&idcategory=0

Also, my friend had the same a similar model long stroke PWS, and the pin which held the 2 sections of piston together broke while firing. Needless to say, he had to send it in for a repair. His model was a 2010, and the malfunction occured in 2012 after about 2000 rounds. That pin seems to be a bit of a question mark in the over all reliability of the product, as I’ve seen a few other posts regarding it failing there.

Good to know. I’m wondering, has PWS addressed that with the newer models? I’ve heard great things about the company and their CS. Still, good to know that is a potential weak spot.

Addax quickly repaired the upper and slapped on a bunch of updated parts as well. The new BCG looks like it had significant trimming and rounding along the edges to reduce wear and the piston itself looked a little different.

My model, aside from the buffer tube wear, never had any malfunctions or other problems. Addax/PWS seem to be continually updating their products, especially to reduce the additional wear potential of the gas pistons. They have new buffer tubes, the updated BCG design and the ZK series seems to be a bit of a direction change in the design of the piston itself. If I were you, keep an eye out for excessive wear. If necessary (and if you think it’s not a gimmick), some of those updates might be an option if carrier tilt/buffer tube wear becomes an issue. I don’t know of any AR-15 GPS that doesn’t have these carrier tilt problems to one degree or anyother, but I think Addax/PWS are some of the highest quality GPS’s out there.

Interesting. It’s cool to notice they are still upgrading the system(s) as we go along. I’m wondering what is new a/o what is being planned. By PWS, and Addax for that matter since you brought it up. I’m wondering if there is any chance they have fixed the earlier noted problems in the past couple of years.

Regardless, thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

-Cheers

13

Don’t take this as end all be all information, as a precursor for what I’m about to say. I’ve had great experience with PWS as a whole. I have had a couple issues with my rifle over gassing, which I plan on addressing in detail when I do my write up in a couple weeks. The short version is that I shredded the dead blow buffer in my PWS buffer tube and ended up having to send it in. As far as PWS factory carbines, they’re fantastic. Mine just happened to have shit luck and had an over gassing issue while running suppressed, which is currently beig resolved. Again, I don’t want people to turn away from PWS because of a couple of issues. When issues do crop up, they work fast to get everything resolved quickly and make sure the customer is completely happy and taken care of, within reason of course.

Again, I plan on chronicling my entire experience with PWS and my MK110 in a couple weeks after I get it back. I plan in starting a new thread but I’ll be sure to post a link here to make it easy to find.

14

Regarding buffer tube wear in general: I think it really depends on severity. I’ve heard of some GPS’s wearing down to the threads in the worst case scenarios, which can clearly cause some serious issues in the cycling.

As far as my buffer tube wear, it’s mostly superficial. The black coating at the bottom lip of the buffer was worn away, but I can’t feel or see any major thickness difference in the aluminum itself. But I only fired about 1,200 rounds or so through mine, so I can’t how much worse it would’ve gotten.

Regarding carrier tilt/buffer tube fixes: Many manufacturers claim that their product eliminates it or does it far less than their competitors. I’ve yet to see a 100% fix. Some AR owners claim they don’t see any symptoms of carrier tilt ever, while others still have issues. The PWS buffer tube you linked to was the one I was talking about. It might help with the problem, but I’m skeptical that it will eliminate it all together. I don’t think anyone has a cure, but theres a lot of things out there to help reduce the effects. Think of it like taking Aspirin for a migraine. Anyways, since I bought my upper in 2009, I’ve seen their product line change quite a bit. I got a glimpse of the insides of a ZK series, and it reminded me more of an Adams Arms, a step in a very different direction.

I don’t have any first hand experience with the newest models of Addax/PWS, but based off the changes that they’ve made, it certainly appears that they’d be better at reducing the carrier tilt related problems.

As far as the companies themselves go, they certainly do take care of their customers from what I can see. If they find a flaw in one of their products, they seem pretty good about addressing.

15

I look forward to reading more about your experience!

16

Maybe a stupid question. Can you just stock up on a few buffer tubes and consider them like tires on your car? Just factor that into the wear & tear of the rifle and replace it if/when they’re worn down enough to start bothering you or causing trouble? Obviously I’d rather carrier tilt didn’t happen, however it still seems a lot cheaper to buy a PWS MK114 and a couple backup buffer tubes than to buy a SCAR or ACR. Is there any reason that would not work?

viperashes . . . What he said. And thanks for sharing your experiences!

-Cheers

17

Yeah, I don’t see why not. In fact, it’s probably not a bad idea, especially considering that they’re relatively cheap.

I hear ya on the price factor. Saw one SCAR about 3 years ago for sale for “only” about 4 grand at a local gun store. :blink:

18

Initial post of my review, cross posted from Arf. Follow it here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_51/371792_PWS_MK110_review__M4_2K___SD3G___CASS_3P_ST_.html

Eventually, when I have the capability, I plan to migrate it here as well.

5/28/2012

I’ve had this handy little PWS MK110 carbine for a few months now and run it through it’s paces. I’ve promised an extended review of it and wanted to do so, as well as chronicle my experiences with it, as well as PWS as a whole. I’m going to review some of the other equipment I’m running as well, including some of the mechanical parts, optics, bags and cases, and miscellaneous accessories that I’ve been using.

First off, I’d like to say that my experience with this carbine overall has been positive. It hasn’t been all rosebuds and tulips though. I’ve had some issues with overgassing when running it suppressed. From the day that I took it home from my dealer (Jim Self / Dallas Subguns LLC out of Kaufman, TX) I had my AAC 51T brake mounted on it. It did come with the Triad flash suppressor installed, instead of an A2 birdcage, which it is pictured with on the PWS website. I definitely like the Triad, but I can’t give any honest opinions on it currently, as I haven’t gotten any chance to put rounds down range with it, especially in low/no light environments, which is really where the hider is going to shine. I have heard great things about it, but I’ll have to write about it in a different review.

Now that I have my precursor out, I want to detail exactly what this carbine is and isn’t. It’s a 10.5" barreled M4 style carbine with an isonite QPQ treated barrel. It has a 1:8" twist rate, and is absolutely phenomenally accurate. I’ve shot this thing out to 300 yards with various loads, shooting steel and paper targets, and had great success. I’m sorry, but I don’t have scientific or quantifiable data to support my experiences or claims, I plan to do so in the future, but up until this point, I just haven’t had the time or the ability to do so. I will say that minute-of-man accuracy is very, very easy to maintain. It’s been said that these little carbines can attain MOA accuracy with good, match ammo, but I have yet to test this myself.

First the bad: I’ve had some issues with this carbine when running it suppressed. Unsuppressed, it’s been absolutely flawless, and has gobbled up every round that I’ve thrown through it. When running it suppressed, it cycles extremely fast, and has caused me some issues with feeding and cycling. Primarily, I’ve gotten stovepipe malfunctions that were an absolute bitch to clear. As I write this, the carbine is currently in at PWS being worked out, and has been since 5/22. This is the second time that my carbine has been into PWS for the same overgassing issue, however, I’ve been treated VERY well, and assured that this will be the very last time that this carbine will need to go in for this issue, and that when I receive it back, it should run absolutely flawlessly, suppressed or unsuppressed.

Why this issue doesn’t bother me as much as it would with other guns: I do understand that PWS slightly overgasses their carbines on purpose to increase reliability with various ammunition that is typically weaker. With ammo prices being what they are these days, I believe that the boys over at PWS are trying to make sure that those feeding their carbines the cheapest, shittiest, weakest ammo that they can buy, will still be able to feed said ammo through their carbines successfully. What that means for those of us running suppressors, especially the AAC M4-2000, which is known to be a very gassy suppressor (meaning that it creates a lot more backpressure than some of its current competitors) is that overgassing issues can be a very real issue for some carbines.

Having talked to Stacy in depth about their system, I realize that not all carbines carry the same issues, and that mine just happened to be a fluke. It happens. Shit happens. Whatever you want to call it, I know plenty of people running these guns and that have thrown tens of thousands of rounds through them, some without cleaning them at all for hundreds or even thousands of rounds, suppressed, unsuppressed, getting thrown in the mud, dirt, sand and water, shooting known dirty, shitty, inexpensive surplus ammo that typically gums up guns pretty badly. One of these people being Dee Mack, the writer of the most prolific PWS carbine review, where he reviewed his MK114 in depth over on snipers hide. I believe this review has been cross posted here by others, and is available if you look.

To the details: I can’t put an accurate round count on this gun at this point. A lot of my ammo expendature has been either A.) dumping rounds through it or B.) unfortunately, trying to figure out why it was gassing so badly when run suppressed. Between these two, I haven’t accurately tracked a round count. It doesn’t really matter however, because it’s essentially going to be a brand new gun when I get it back anyway, and I fully intend to keep a running record of my experiences with this carbine as I go forward in my experiences with it.

Here are a few videos that I’ve taken that show off the capabilities and deficiencies of, as well as my experiences with my MK110, as well as some of the other kit that I am using.

First, here is a few very early videos of me shooting my MK110, pre Spec-B on full auto using a milspec f/a fire control group and a borrowed RDIAS. Basically, this allowed me to use the PWS carbine in it’s entirety with no modifications to the weapon itself, other than the addition of a full auto fire control group

First unsuppressed, using an AAC 51t Brake mount.

//youtu.be/http://youtu.be/Vek76W6eCzA

Now with my M4-2000 attached. Notice the extreme increase in ROF.

[flash width=’ 425’ height=’ 350’ src=‘http://youtu.be/aI1Xxiol7B8’]

This following video is one that I made as a visual reference for the guys at PWS so that they could actually see what I was seeing when my gun would malfunction. Up until recently, I’ve actually kept this video private, because I didn’t want people to get the wrong ideas about this gun. I have full faith in the fact that PWS is going to resolve this issue. This is not typical of this gun (MK110 / MK110b) to run like shit suppressed. Notice in my second video, although the rate of fire is increased substantially, it does run. It’s been an intermittent issue, but one that I found important enough to resolve, as I don’t intend to use this gun as purely a hobby gun, as many can understand, and actually intend on using this firearm as a defensive weapon, both privately, and in performance of my job in the near future.

[flash width=’ 425’ height=’ 350’ src=‘http://youtu.be/d4ylw6Gh_KY’]

With all of that said, I’d like to step away from the MK110 and review some of the other kit that I’m currently using. Firstly, the Geissele SD3G trigger. Incidently, you can see that the MK110 runs flawlessly, again, while unsuppressed, in both videos.

In this video, I’m actually putting taking the weapon from low ready, on safe, to the ready, flipping the safety to fire, firing, flipping back to safe, and coming back to the low ready. I’m actually using the BAD-ASS-ST in this video, so I can’t comment (yet) on the CASS-3P-ST, however, that review will be coming shortly. I have a feeling that it will be very similar to my current feelings about my current selector, which are that it is absolutely fantastic. I love how short and fast this selector is. This build was meant for speed on target, and it accomplishes that very well, thanks almost entirely to the combination of the Battle Arms short throw selector and the Geissele Super Dynamic 3-Gun trigger.

[flash width=’ 425’ height=’ 350’ src=‘http://youtu.be/V0frSBDXGhM’]

In this video, I started dicking around, attempting to bumpfire the trigger. I realize it’s sloppy gun handling, and every other piece of criticism that can be thrown my way. I was demonstrating the trigger to another individual at the range that was concerned with the pull weight and short break/reset of the trigger, and concerned that he would get doubling with it. None of which happened in either video.

[flash width=’ 425’ height=’ 350’ src=‘http://youtu.be/86c-5Dui6JU’]

The Geissele SD3G trigger is fantastic. I will gladly pay the 200-some odd dollars for one of these triggers for each and every one of my rifles. As for right now, it’s keeping me from spending the $15-20K on a machine gun. Although full auto is suppremely fun, I’m perfectly content with the SD3G for the current moment.

I haven’t experienced any doubling issues with this trigger at all, except for when I’m deliberately trying to get it to do so by not shouldering the weapon properly, and pulling the trigger to the rear extremely slowly and unrealistically undeliberate. Other than that, it’s been flawless and boringly predictable, although it has been an absolute dream to shoot. I’ve heard it compared to the “1911 trigger of AR15 triggers” which I very much agree sums this trigger up. It’s light, crisp, and deliberate. It’s a take-no-shit, no frills, short, light, positive trigger that does exactly what a trigger is supposed to do, faster, cleaner, and more positive than any other trigger I have used to date. It’s fantastic. It’s not for everyone, but if you don’t fall into that first group, Geissele has plenty of other offerings. I would be very comfortable with using this trigger in a home or self defense situation, or even as a patrol officer. Some may disagree with that, but these are my thoughts, not theirs.

The AAC M4-2000: I love this suppressor. My only gripe with it is that I too, like many others, got one that has a bum latch. It’s going to need to get sent in for a new latch as soon as I get it back from PWS, who has it to make sure that my carbine will run with MY suppressor when it comes back to me, rather than just with A suppressor. Believe it or not, not all suppressors are created equally either, just like the guns we mount them on. My carbine is a prime example.

I’ve practically burned all of the finish off of this suppressor. I’ve beaten the living hell out of it. Some full auto dumps, bursts, etc, extended semi-auto bursts, semi-auto mag dumps, etc. It’s never backed off or shifted, yes, even with the bum ass latch that I have. Like many others it doesn’t engage that last notch on my mount, but I’m perfectly ok with that, because it’s never wobbled or felt loose, and doesn’t affect POI at all. Fuck it. Not important. This is a fighting gun, not a precision rig. If you’re worried about that shit, go look up the hack mods to fix your issue if you’re that concerned about it, or buy a different can. It’s a perfectly viable suppressor for 95% of the populations needs. It IS gassy, as compared to other rifle suppressors I’ve used, including the 762-SD or SDN-6, which I attribute to them having a larger bore and more volume, as many will say.

As for right now, these are my thoughts on everything that I am using. As I get my carbine back and continue to put ammunition through it, I will caveat on some of the other gear that I’m using simply because I can, and I think it’s good information. I plan on reviewing my 5.11 COVRT-M4 bag, which has been nothing short of fantastic for my needs, in light of the fact that sneaky bags are no longer available. I also plan on reviewing the Aimpoint PRO and LaRue LT-129 mount that it rides in. LaRue index clips, Magpul XT rail covers, Troy Modular Combat Grip, Magpul MOE-K grip, and LaRue RISR to name a few things. Hopefully this is good information, and hopefully it helps some of you that are concidering PWS carbines.

As I said at the beginning of my post, I know for a fact that my experiences with my particular carbine are very atypical of PWS carbines, to include the MK110. I fully intend to update this thread periodically, and keep a running log of my experiences with this carbine once I get it back, so stay tuned for more.

EDIT: I can’t get the videos to work here at M4C. If you follow the link, the videos work there, or just plug the address into your browser.

19

Wow, thats a great, in-depth review, glad to hear it!

20

I talked with Mitch over at PWS today. He’s one of their R&D techs. The only reaso a hub should usually get to him is because its seriously fucked up. Here’s the email I receiver prior to calling:

Hello viperashes,
*
I have received you MK110 and have been working on it trying to troubleshoot and replicate the issues that you have experienced while using it. A few observations where made before I got too far into the troubleshooting: Your AAC M4-2000 is not properly fitting on your Blackout mount, the mount or the locking *needs to be replaced. The M4-2000 is not completely engaging with the mount and is not being held captive by the ratchet system as the teeth on the Blackout and on the collar of the M4-2000 have been worn down by repeated mounting and dismounting of the suppressor and are unable to get any “bite” into engagement.
*
The second issue is the exit aperture on the M4-2000 is showing a lot of wear (probably not a total surprise to you), we checked the baffles inside the can and the exit aperture itself and they are showing wear but there have been no bullet strikes. There are several marks on the inside portion of the exit aperture where some material has been removed due to use and when we used a pin gauge to check the diameter and it was discovered that it has been warped probably due to heat (the aperture is no longer perfectly round) this was confirmed using an optical comparator.
*
The deadblow buffer that was in the end of the buffer tube was mangled so we replaced that on your lower before firing.
(Just a note: what you have described as carrier tilt is not, the carrier itself (the op-rod block what on a DI gun is the gas key) is hitting the buffer tube and receiver because it was fired without the deadblow installed which allowed the bolt carrier group to travel almost half an inch further to the rear than what it was designed to).
*
When we began testing it for function while suppressed because your notes state that suppressor use is the only variance from how it left the factory that is causing you issues so we shot it as we received it from you, except that we removed most of the accessories that were on the weapon. It was shot first using a sustained fire firing interval (1 round every 2-3 sec) without any issue for 30 rounds, we then examined the suppressor and re-tightened it to the mount and loaded another magazine of 30 and duplicated the previous test, again no malfunction was encountered. We then let it cool (waiting approximately 30 minutes to air cool it) and then retested at a quicker rate of fire (about 1-2 rounds per sec) using another magazine of 30 rounds, this test was done twice as well and like the previous tests no malfunctions were encountered. The ammo used for all tests was mil-spec 55 gr FMJBT.
*
After this series of function tests we took the weapon apart and examined it for any irregularities and we did discover that the bolt catch itself was a few thousandths small in width so we replaced it. All of the other components on the upper and lower receiver were inspected and no other issues were found. The upper receiver was then put on a full auto lower and was test fired, no issues on the first mag but on the second mag we did encounter a failure to eject or “stovepipe” malfunction. The malfunction was cleared and the rest of the mag (approximately 9 rounds) was fired without further malfunctions. The weapon was then disassembled and cleaned thoroughly; the bolt face and chamber were filthy from suppressed firing we fired almost 200 rounds suppressed and from however many rounds you had through it before shipping it back to us. After cleaning it with special attention given to the bolt, chamber and barrel the weapon was then reassembled and the previous test were repeated firing sustained, rapid and full auto with no other malfunctions.
*
At this point I am hoping to get some more information regarding the ammunition that seems to be causing the most malfunctions that you have experienced and also to find out how often is your cleaning cycle on the weapon? The weapon does run beautifully unsuppressed with a standard carbine buffer in it as it ejects consistently between the 2 and 3 o clock positions, with an H3 installed and firing unsuppressed the pattern moves to the 4 and 5 o clock positions but still functions without failure. During suppressed firing the weapon is ejecting at 3 o clock while using an H3 buffer. If you can share any other information regarding what ammo is used and how often it is cleaned that will help me greatly try and solve the issue on our end before we send it back to you. I look forward to hearing back from you soon.
*
Best Regards,
*
Mitch Ehlke
Primary Weapons Systems

Basically what I got from the phone call is that 2 things are causing my issues. 1.) the shredded dead blow buffer that fell out of my RE caused the carrier to be able to travel farther rearward than it was supposed to. 2.) the M4-2000 is not full auto rated. It’s capable of handling full auto, but isn’t meant for it. Basically what is happening is the can is pressurizing and is unable to depressurize fast enough at cyclic rates of fire.

Short and sweet, it’s the suppressor, not the gun, but the damage to the gun exacerbated the issues.