I have a ptr 91, aw9###, already went back to factory for bolt gap issue.
I have ftf with a large number of steel mags (even the newer in wrap ones). The bolt would fail to go into battery, instead smashing the round into the mag well (and smashing the bullet into the casing).
I have pics but can’t post from phone. Brown bear 308.
Is this a mag problem? Aluminum has worked so far, but I only have about 800 rounds through gun.
If it does it with more than one steel magazine (assuming they are factory and not aftermarket), then I would say the issue is with the rifle.
FWIW, my factory 91 fed from everything including Thermolds and really crappy Wilson 30 round magazines.
I’ve seen issues with steel mags before, too. Only happened with one mag of mine in my rifles, but I’ve seen a few steels that don’t feed in others’ guns, and usually it’s just from old, beat up, steel mags. Are they CETME steel mags or HK?
thank you gentlemen.
Steyr, do you own an original hk 91? maybe the clones differ in the mag well designs ever so slightly to make steel mags less reliable?
Duane, I was hoping you’d respond. I saw your posting on another forum and you indicated problem may be weak springs. However, I have this problem with 2, 8, or 20 rounds.
I emailed ptr and asked if this was a feed ramp issue, they said no, which could make sense because alloys function well.
There seems to be at least 3 designs on the mag’s locking tab and the front part of the mag (where the round has to pass from mag to chamber).
The alloy has a flat tab with flat front, the steels have rounded fronts (see pics).
if I wasnt such a stubborn ass, I’d just go with alloys, but they seem fragile, with only a thin lip holding the floor plate. Also it seems the consensus was the steel was better - maybe that’s only true for factory hk91s?
I was expecting AK reliability, i’m a bit disappointed.
PTRs are junk and this rifle should have been sold off after it came back from them for the bolt gap issue.
I thought it was a fairly common issue, that’s why they have the +1, +2 rollers?
I bought the ptr for the price and welded pic rail
If you’ve got NIW steels, the springs are less likely to be the culprit. I just dug through my stuff. All the steels that I’ve cleaned up and used have the semi-circle relief at the front lip. I have a bunch of IC date coded NIW steels that I’ve never used that are straight across the front lip. I’ll hand cycle some later in 2 or 3 rifles and see what I get.
All the mags that I use regularly are Al. They are actually quite robust. Never had one fail, and I’ve salvaged a few science projects as training mags prying out some serious dents…like they dropped a pallet on it kind of dents.
Factory 91s and G3s. So yeah, if it isn’t the magazine I’d suggest it is a clone issue. PTR had some problems with extraction when they first came out. Haven’t heard of any major feed problems but I don’t have a lot of experience with the PTRs either.
It’s not a common issue on factory guns and it takes a LOT of rounds to need to upgrade the rollers. I have my 1983 date 91s and 93s on their original rollers.
It is a common problem on gunsmith builds to correct a “not quite spec” build. Really no reason PTR should be experiencing these problems, but I guess it’s possible.
Shit I thought ptr got their act together after the whole shallow flutes issue.
Is ptr still not considered reliable? I did lots research before buying, didn’t see any complaints except shallow flutes, which they fixed. Plus the lifetime warranty.
Looks like I’m going to stock up on alloy instead then.
Still bothers the shit out of me
Thanks for all the valuable info fellas.
Mr Duane, the straight lip is the left one and the other two are half moon
there are at least 3 different mag locking tab and front lip designs-half moon and straight which seems weird. Why the diff? How can all these work in one rifle?
Ak mags are made all over the world, same locking tab, same lips.
Rchen, pm sent.
Feeding these beasts is all about where the front edge of the mag puts the point of the projectile when it gets to the trunnion lip.
All of the mag varieties feed in all of mine, but there isn’t much clearance with the recessed lip steel mags for the bullet tip going over the trunnion edge.
That is what I was told (that they got all the problems worked out after getting FMP tooling), but like I said I don’t have much recent experience.
PTR seems to have had some issues sorting out hardness from time to time as they’ve had to pick up domestic manufacture of the various components. They stand behind their stuff, though, and seem to figure out issues quickly. I have no issues from either the US internals or the HK ones that i have at this point, though the most used rifle is still under 5k rounds.
Thanks all.
PTR’s response is that the rifle is ok. They shoot almost exclusively from alloy mags though.
Someone also said maybe the ammo was out of spec.
They blame FTF on mags, but do say steel should work:
http://www.atdesigner.com/ptr91/techinfo.html
If you are experiencing failure to feed, multi feed its most likely a magazine related problem. Try a few different magazines and see if the problem corrects itself first.
Both alloy and steel magazines will function in our rifles.
Guess the only true way to find out is to keep shooting more.
You likely have an older AW prefix target rifle with a Thompson Center barrel designed to shoot commercial .308 ammo. Compared to a G3 chamber, an AW series PTR has fewer flutes that are also cut to a shallower depth. PTR claimed this increases accuracy and reduces felt recoil. Since you are having problems, I would clean the flutes carefully and also limit mags to genuine HK. I also would try ammo besides Brown Bear to eliminate low quality ammo as a variable.
If you want G3 type fluting to increase reliability, Hart1 at the HK forum can re-cut them for $75 or you can just sell the AW target rifle and buy a current production PTR GI series that uses a G3 pattern barrel/chamber. Note that some early GI series rifles with green furniture have Wilson barrels with 10 or 11 flute chambers. Current production PTR GI’s have Green Mountain barrels with G3 style 12 flute chambers. I believe that PTR is moving to 12 flute barrels across the board but I would call to confirm.
Regarding trunnions, PTR evidently used oversized pins in about 50 rifles built in 2010 which could cause the trunnion to crack which would explain your previous bolt gap issues. http://www.ptr91.com/news/?p=68
I’ve inspected two current production GI’s and the bolt gap was within spec.
The bottom line with PTR’s is that the vintage of the rifle is important for those who a looking for a pure HK91 clone that will eat anything. The latest GI’s and some of the later JLD ‘A series’ guns seem to be the best picks and a good value. The other PTR models may or may not have problems depending on the ammo you shoot.
He’s got an AW9xxx. Shallow flute guns were AW1500+/- to AW8000+/-.
Large pin guns were in the AW8000-Aw8360 range and GIs less than 250.
Hard and soft bolt head issues were in the shallow flute series. AW guns with the shallow flutes have 12 flutes. “A” series usually have 10, but they’re deep enough so they work. I’ve heard of a few stragglers on hardness issues in his range.
His current problem is the height that the magazine presents the nose of the round to the trunnion shelf and has nothing to do with flutes or hardness, though, and steel case works in the entire line, shallow flute or not, so he’s OK with BB, but a different ogive may indeed present differently to the trunnion.
Ha who knows maybe I’m the vanguard of a new problem with aw9000+ that we will read about in a few years.
I did notice this. on the side of the mag, there are 3 tabs that prevent mag from being pushed too far into mag well. When I pull down on seated mag, the two rear tabs stay flush with magwell, however the front tab can be pulled down - this changes the angle of the mag. could this be causing misfeed? Do your hk or ptr have this problem?
I bought a cut real hkmagwell online, will do a comparison.
I expect ak or glock reliability, is that unrealistic?
I suspect there’s an issue with the trunnion “tab” that engages the “slot” in the front of the mag being just ever so slightly low or thin by a few thou…enough to give you problems with the steels that present lower, but work with the Aluminums and probably the flat front steels, also.
Most of my mags wiggle a little in the mag well. Doesn’t affect feeding, even pulling back, pushing forward, or using as a monopod.
Grab some aluminums, check function while putting pressure on the mag from front, back, and bottom. If it works, check to see that you’re not scraping the heck out of the projos as they feed. If that stuff is good, move on with life, get aluminums or flat front steels, and get rid of the recessed steels.
Remember…you’re trying to use a magazine design in your gun that was affected by an inline change to the flat fronts. While they work in some, it’s akin to wanting to fix your 6920 because it won’t feed with vietnam era waffle side 20 rounders, but works fine with Brownells USGI and PMAGs.
If, however, it feeds poorly with aluminums or flat front steels under the above conditions, call PTR and explain the issue thoroughly. Tell them that if they don’t do corrective action on the issue, you want a new rifle or a refund.
It’s not crazy to expect AK reliability. Outside of the FTEs I had with the shallow flute guns when doing the testing figuring out that PTRs claims of “underpowered surplus” were actually problems with any tar-sealed ammo due to the shallow flutes, I can’t recall a single malf in any of my guns. I know that I’ve never had a malf in anything that didn’t have the shallow flute barrels, period, even with Wolf, SA, RG, Port, WWB, FN, PRVI, etc., all of which are tar sealed, except the Port and Wolf.
Yes sir, you’re right. You have cured me of my stubbornness. I will stick with al mags and forget the whole issue if they work right.
Love the analogy!
Thanks again