Ingestion of sufficient dietary protein is a fundamental prerequisite for muscle protein synthesis and maintenance of muscle mass and function. Elderly people are often at increased risk for protein-energy malnutrition, sarcopenia, and a diminished quality of life. This study sought to compare changes in muscle protein synthesis and anabolic efficiency in response to a single moderate serving (113 g; 220 kcal; 30 g protein) or large serving (340 g; 660 kcal; 90 g protein) of 90% lean beef. Venous blood and vastus lateralis muscle biopsy samples were obtained during a primed, constant infusion (0.08 μmol/kg/min) of L-[ring-13C6] phenylalanine in healthy young (n=17; 34±3 years) and elderly (n=17; 68±2 years) individuals. Mixed muscle fractional synthesis rate was calculated during a 3-hour postabsorptive period and for 5 hours after meal ingestion. Data were analyzed using a two-way repeated measures analysis of variance with Tukey’s pairwise comparisons. A 113-g serving of lean beef increased muscle protein synthesis by approximately 50% in both young and older volunteers. Despite a threefold increase in protein and energy content, there was no further increase in protein synthesis after ingestion of 340 g lean beef in either age group. Ingestion of more than 30 g protein in a single meal does not further enhance the stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly.
Did a quick google search, and it is a diet that is high-fat, moderate-protein and low carb, used to adjust the body to utilize fat as fuel. It is used to treat epilepsia.
I would assume that the body adjusting to use fat as fuels would contribute to the weight loss and fat burning…?
So where does the excess fat go? Does it turn into fat?
Why cant the body do the same for protein?
I think that excess calories and improper macro nutrient percentages would be more to blame for fat gain than simply eating alot of protein.
The real question here is how much protein is enough and what is “too much”?
Ive been eating 250-300+grams of protein for six months and i have gone from 20% body fat to under 14%. I personally think i am eating a little bit MORE than i need but the results i am seeing are contrary to the study that you posted.
Yes, i am weight training and doing light cardio but i would hardly call myself a hard core body builder or lifter.
“The body cannot take up more than around 30 grams of protein per meal. .”
Has nothing to do with the study results that found:
“Ingestion of more than 30 g protein in a single meal does not further enhance the stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly.”
The results of that study can be debated for relevance and other fine points, but it’s moot in terms of your statement (a classic myth not supported by the science) vs results of some studies.
Did you see that I said “around 30 grams”, as in approximately? Can some people absorb and utilize 40 grams per sitting? Perhaps. 100 grams per sitting? Nope.
Like I stated, there will be individual variables.
Most body builders I know are of the same opinion, and have adjusted their diet accordingly, eating 5, 6 maybe even 7-8 meals a day, to ensure that their individual protein need is met.
However, I am not educated enough to contradict what all doctors I have spoken to have said about protein absorption, during various physiology courses and physical fitness training education.
And what about the conclusion in the study I listed does not support the theory of a limit in regards to protein absorbtion and utilization? It says clearly that there is no added effect by consuming more protein to the overall protein synthesis in the body.
Fat is a very important nutrient, so very little is passed unabsorbed. It is stored in the body (containing 50 billion fat-cells), and released when needed, carried via the blood stream to other cells, for example muscles.
Fat is burned through metabolism, as many cells in the body get their energy by breaking down triglycerides either from food directly or from the body’s fat stores.
Thus, the statement “The body cannot take up more than around 30 grams of protein per meal” is incorrect and not supported by the data.
The opinion of bbers is of zero relevance, and I have done the nutrition, training, and pre contest prep for a number of IFBB pro bbers.
A it relates specifically to PSR under those specific conditions with those study participants, without looking at the methodology used to measure the effects, ad so forth. It’s not a general finding to any upper limits to digestion, absorption, utilization, etc. for protein. That’s an essential distinction to make and understand.
See above dude…it’s great you have the interest and some background for it, but it’s often the case one creates more confusion than fixes by knowing just enough to be dangerous.
If it’s not your lane, perhaps refrain from making declarative statements of fact that are far more complex and nuanced than you may appreciate.
It is clear that you feel strongly about supplements. I don’t. It is also interesting that I am wrong, and you are demanding sources, yet you have only provided a single link to an article written by you, debunking “protein myths”. And “link wars” isn’t very conducive to a good discussion. Most of the links I have backing up my statements are in Norwegian, unfortunately. I can link to them if you want.
I do not have the time, nor interest to search for studies or articles regarding maximum protein intake. If that is the point of contention with my post, fine. Disagree. Read my post as the devil reads the Bible, and disregard any nuance I was trying to convey. Did I post anything that could be regarded as dangerous? No. Would what I said detract from an individuals work out regime? Most likely not.
Body builders was meant as a generic term, not Mr Universe types.
My experience, and what I have been told by medical doctors, including those working at Norways top athletics institute, training our Olympic athletes, amongst others, show that there is no additional effect in increasing protein intake in regards to increasing muscle mass.
I have done some googling, though, and it is quite interesting to see that most of the people calling the ~30 gram limit a myth, are people who work out using protein supplements, whilst most health professionals say that there is no evidence supporting otherwise.
Personally I think that the supposed effects are more psychological in nature, in that people will exercise more regularly when they have purchased new and fancy protein supplements. Thus, the effects are more the result of more focused training than added protein intake.
It’s my business having done consulting work for companies, R&D, published in the peer reviewed lit, etc on the topic.
An article fully cited…
I have read the primary lit, am in direct communication with many of the primary researchers in the field, and it’s my lane and what I have done for 20 years or so. Bio on my site if interested.
All good, but I also find perpetuation of myths and simply incorrect info not helpful or conducive to learning and just adds confusion. Just like someone posting “knock down power” of a handgun rnd in the terminal ballistics section, someone will correct it, and make attempts to dispel what is incorrect/out dated information on the topic.
You’re now confusing topics as if interchangeable, which indicates you lack the background for the discussion. Increasing protein intake beyond what? 30g per meal? Above the RDA? Other? That’s a totally different topic from your original statement.
Well that settles it! :rolleyes:
Quit while you’re ahead. Now you’re just digging yourself into a hole and looking ignorant and way out of your lane.
Ugh. See above comments. I’m finished here. Good luck.
I have done some googling, though, and it is quite interesting to see that most of the people calling the ~30 gram limit a myth, are people who work out using protein supplements, whilst most health professionals say that there is no evidence supporting otherwise.
If you really did not see the context of what I wrote here, and instead use it to pick apart my experience, fine. In case you need the fine print, I was trying to find ENGLISH sources to link to, since the ones I have are norwegian. During that search, many of the hits were to posts on fitness/work out boards, where many people were asking that question.
Again, I have several norwegian sources, that I can link to if you would like. But unless you know norwegian, it won’t really help.
30g per meal? Above the RDA?
Both.
Ugh.
Mature.
Are you saying that there are no psychological effects? Funny, as it is found highly likely by medical professional studying this in Norway. More likely than the protein having an effect.
Quit while you’re ahead. Now you’re just digging yourself into a hole and looking ignorant and way out of your lane.
It’s cool. I trust what our top trainers and athletes have to say about the topic. I never discredited you or your background, I just disagree on the effects of increased protein intake (daily or per meal). I just find it odd that you want to focus more on me in you arguments, than providing factual and actual information. Whatever floats your boat.
You need to take some anatomy classes hypertrophy is increasing the size of the fibers. Hyperplasia is i where the fibers stay roughly the same size, but increase in number. Hyperplasia does not happen with muscle but hypertrophy does you can increase the size but not the number. You also have active and inactive muscle fibers and some think there are ways to activate the inactive, but i have not looked into that. Muscletech sold a dormant muscle fiber activator (i forgot the name and not sure if it is around still).
There is a lot of mis information in your post Im on my phone so Im not going to type it all out. Im not just stating this with no experience. I have taken multiple nutrition classes along with anatomy, physiology, microbiology. I am also a personal trainer certified through the national council on strength and fitness.
Edit: thank you for your service my disagreement with your statements is with the utmost respect
Edit: thank you for your service my disagreement with your statements is with the utmost respect
Heh, no worries, I’m thick skinned.
So…I do know there are ways of working out which tend to maximize size/mass/volume, yet do not result in huge strength gains. And…there are ways of working out which emphasizes raw strength, yet does not result in much additional mass.
Or put another way, I’ve seen big guys not be able to lift what you would think they can…and small guys out-lift them.
Of course, skill plays a part (being good at a particular exercise) as well as neurological factors (your body letting you tap into more of your present potential), but from a biological standpoint…in your view what accounts for some who have great bulk, yet are weaker than they look, and those who are the opposite? Why are some puffy and weak and others dense and strong?
The only part i disagreed with was your explanation of hypertrophy. One definition was correct the other was the basic definition of another word. I actually thought for the most part your post was right on, and without going back over the whole post and nit picking it which would do no good, because i would be pointing out little discrepancies. Some of which are philosophical others are factual, but the factual differences were minute. My first post was wrong in stating that there was a lot of mis information.
Your new post is absolutely correct. There are those people who are big but cant lift any weight, and there are those who weigh 150 that are strong as an oxe. There are so many contributing factors that it would require an in depth conversation.
A person only has a certain amount of muscle fibers. Exercise does not create more. It can cause dormant fibers to activate, but it will not create new fibers. That was the part i was in disagreement about. I was just pointing it out, because i thought it might be something you might have wanted to know. From your post it is obvious that you have more than a passing interest in fitness.
If i came across as attacking what you said it was not my intentions. Tone is very hard to convey in a post. When i said a lot of mis information i was referring to the first part of your post with the definitions. I should have made that more clear.
At the risk of sounding simple…My experience, actually trying to strengthen myself, and my opinion… why waste your time trying to build and improve yourself without offering your body a proper substance to build with?? Yea, you could do it with proper foods, but its usually easier for the average person to take a protein type supplement??? Myself included.
I Down a Protein shake (mixed with water) after every workout, then when I arrive home I eat a Paleo-Zone balanced meal…meat, TONS of Veggies, a little fruit, and Fat (avocado, nuts, certain oils)
I used to rely on shakes wayyy too much, i only use them to “suppliment” my diet. In all honesty protein is almost overrated, now let me explain before i get my head bitten off, YES protein is essential for muscle growth, recovery and sustainability, BUT alot of people neglect (i did to) Vegetables, and healthy FATS…these too are ESSENTIAL in muscle growth, recovery, energy etc…I used to eat almost 3 lbs of meat a DAY and skimped on my fats and veggies (carbs) and didnt see anywhere near the strength gains I am now with a diet balanced with all THREE…not to mention the lack of energy.
As far as im concerned, Dairy and Grains, are a no no…Dairy for obvious reasons, and Grains serve NO purpose in benefiting overall fitness.
This isnt biting your head off… However, I used to eat at least 3lbs of meat a day right after losing 26lbs at OCS, and was able to put on 30lbs of lean muscle in 2 months.
You say protein is “almost” “overrated”. I understand your fats and vegetables comment, but can you cut out protein and just eat veggies and fat and get massive size and strength gains? Probably not. Can you eat beef, chicken, and pasta and put on a ton of muscle when working out properly? Yes.
Am I recommending cutting out vegetables? I am not, but let’s not act like Olympic sprinters, NFL players, and the World’s Strongest Man competitors could be vegans and compete.
There are some people out there that advocate protein as if it is some sort of magic substance.
There is ONE popular firearms trainer out there advocating we eat 3 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. Yes, i am rolling my eyes…
THAT is ridiculous and there is NO way in hell if you are eating 600 grams of protein as a 200 pound man you are coming ANYWHERE near a balanced diet or macronutrient break down that makes sense.
If you eat a diet based around 40% protein 40% fat and 20% carbs you will still intake more protein than you would grams of fat. Still, looking at the PERCENTAGE yields an even emphasis on two macronutrient groups.
I dont think protein consumption is over rated like another poster said, i just believe it needs to be understood properly.
I personally do 40% Carbs 30% Protein and 30% Fat.
I totally agree (except for the pasta thing :D) I guess I should have explained myself alittle better, I didnt mean to sound like eating alot of meat is not beneficial, and eating half the amount is just the same (which is kind of what it sounded like)
3g. per pound is ridiculous, yes, you will likely sh%t/P%ss the majority of it away through your day.
I guess saying “overrated” was a bit exaggerated, I just believe too many people neglect the other two STAPLE macro nutrient groups CARBS and FAT.
Is it possible to JUST eat a shit ton of meat and gain muscle? Sure “Flesh builds Flesh” I like that saying ;)…Can people gain size and muscle eating meat and pasta? Sure…
Do I think you would see better results with a 40 30 30% diet? I think SO. why? Have you ever looked into Hormone imbalance?
Am I saying the “ZONE” methology is “The best?” no, IDK, everyone has their opinion, mine, I believe it works, Like I said, I was in the same boat as you, I ate 3lbs roughly of meat a day, did a see gains? yes…Do I see better gains now on the 40 30 30 eliminating Dairy and Grains? YES…this worked for me, all im saying, and have seen it work for countless athletes. YMMV.
I think everyone has their own method to their own madness.
Personally, i prefer a low carb diet as i FEEL better when i dont eat refined carbs like pasta and bread. I still intake a ton of veges and fruit but the foods that cause the “itis” in me are no longer consumed.
Is my performance suffering? Possibly but i am not an elite athlete so i cannot really say as i do not have any real standards in my resistance training regimen that would be comparable to say the 10-8 pistol test.
To get a little bit more on track, i supplement with about 500 calories from whey protein in my diet split up into two 250 calorie shakes a day simply because i find it VERY hard to eat 2300 calories a day of lean meats, fish and vegetables. IF i ever do decide to go the traditional route and “bulk” i will most likely have to add in rice to increase my caloric intake to a reasonable level. For me, at 176 pounds, eating several pounds of meat a day to get close to 2300 calories is awfully tough but i do it as best as i am able and the shakes certainly help.
It is also relatively cheap, cheaper than buying chicken breast in bulk.
