I read a lot of comments in AAR’s about how important it is to have your carbine zeroed properly before going to class. With that in mind I have 2 questions:
Using the 50 yard IBZ, is 3 shots in a 2 inch by 2 inch square properly zeroed?
According to the instructions for the IBZ you are supposed to zero the weapon at a 6/3 -4 clicks (Colt 6920 stock carry handle irons) using the small apperature. That goes fine. The instructions then say that for “patrol” you can flip to the large apperature and set the elevation knob back at 6/3. When I do that the carbine shoots way low at 50 yards and yields about a 10 inch group. Doing drills a 3 to 15 yards it seems right on. Any advice on the switch from small to large apperature? Am I just that bad at 50 yards with the large apperature?
Thanks for the advice. If I get to take a carbine class later this summer I want to be ready.
Sight alignment/sight picture can take a little more time to get good at with the larger rear aperture as there is more room to play, and it helps make sure you are sitting on the sight well, with consistent cheek weld. I’m just curious how much experience you have shooting aperture type iron sights?
A 10" group sounds large. Nothing is loose with your rear sight is it? How many rounds are in your 10" group? Also, how low is “way low”?
If your group is centered on your point of aim at 50 yards, then it’s probably zeroed. You might want to fire a few more rounds to see if a real group is centered there or not.
As to distance, it depends on the instructor. Most in my experience used a 50 yard zero. Some want a 100 yard zero. You’ll have to ask the specific instructor of the class you want to do.
The advice to get a same plane aperture (like the Ashley product) is really good, and it will eliminate the shift in elevation point of impact when you switch. This will eliminate the need for adjusting your rear sight so it bottoms-out at -4 clicks. You’ll just put it on 6/3 and leave it there, then zero at 50 yards.
If you’re going to stick with your current rear sight aperture, I would just “pick a team.” Zero with either the small or large aperture and stick with it, because it sounds like your combination of rear sight and aperture isn’t going to work well with the IBZ details. You may alos just need more experience using the larger aperture (especially with 10 inch groups at 50 yards).
Thanks for the input guys. I’m sure I do need more practice.
Hope to be getting a Aimpoint Comp M4 later this year, but in the mean time stock irons are all I have. I was thinking of a Larue BUIS. What type of an apperature does it have?
On day 1 of our carbine class, I won the 50 yd. shootoff in LAV’s class using the large aperture on the Larue against other iron sights, Aimpoints, S&Bs. I’m not saying I’m a super sniper accurate shot but if you do your part, the iron sights will do. On day 2, the winner of the 100 yd. shootoff also shot with iron sights against the same bunch of optical sighted rifles.
Pretty impressive. My team provides us with an Eotech but I have yet to mount mine as I have not learned as much about them as I would like. I have used others before, and seen the benefits during CQB. Is it just as effective at longer ranges? Also having trouble getting a 100 meter zero. Our range only goes to 50 meters. Any suggestions? Thanks,
The Eotech has a 1 MOA dot in the center so it is fine for mid range shooting, provided you can see the target. Your front sight post on irons is considerably larger.
I ran the entire first half of the low light course with my Aimpoint turned off and only using my iron sights. Once you learn how to use them they can definitely get the job done.
Of course, I eventually turned the Aimpoint on because some dude with a Glock and an AK was outshooting me, and I couldn’t let that stand.
I have a target that allows you to shoot at 25 meters and will give you a POA/POI zero at 100 meters. It can even be printed from a standard deskjet printer on 8.5 x 11 paper. If you would like I’ll try and get a link to it set up.
When I have time to think about it, I don’t shoot as well as I would like with the large aperture. On the other hand, under stress I do pretty well with it. The batteries died in my EOTech during a 3-gun match last year. I flipped up my rear sight and finished the match with good hits. If I’d had the luxury of time, I would have found a way to mess up!.
On my house gun, the rear sight folds down with the small aperture in place. I keep the rear sight “up” with the large aperture in the house, though.
Working/defensive guns are zeroed at 50yds, optics and irons, with deliberate disregard for the elevation wheel (where so equipped). I don’t use the small aperture on the irons, and don’t seem to have issues hitting targets within my practical ranges.
Hunting/varmint rigs, or other with magnified optics for shooting longer ranges are zeroed at 100yds.
I shoot A-2 irons as well and my rifle is zeroed at 50 yards using the improved battlesight zero. I use the small aperture for most of my work. I have found that I am more consistent with it. It is probably because I shoot with my nose just behind the charging handle. When in this position the large aperture is just too big. I do use the large aperture on building entries. At least for me, one thing I have to keep in mind is that I will shoot lower with the large aperture.
It would save a LOT of Day One training time if everyone would work their hardest to come with their rifles zeroed or reasonably close. In fact, I think instructors should offer a $25 cash payment to those that do bring them with the specified zero. Other students aren’t going to be happy when they’re waiting endlessly for others to zero their weapon(s)
