Someone smarter than I said, “We live in a 300 meter world.” Here is some good support for this proposition on LF
In Iraq, during practice in the field confirming zeros, we routinely hit a B-mod sized steel silhoutte at 500yds using an M4 with Aimpoint. Now, this is standing up just waiting to be shot, which almost never happens. The longest shot we made with the bolt gun(M40A3, 1dt rd hit) was 710yds. One of our teams corrected and hit on the re-engage at 980yds+. I would offer that the Aimpoint/EOTech is superior to the iron sights in ALL conditions. IOW, there ain’t no fucking excuse to use iron for real, except your optics are busted.
With the M16 in 5.56 using Mk 262 and an ACOG, I have high confidence out to about 600yds or so. Harrassment and suppression fire past that to maybe 800. IOW, you can make hits out to well past where you’re routinely going to perceive targets. More importantly, you should be using supporting arms to engage these targets, instead or, or in addition to using small arms fire.
The longest distance we saw targets during normal infantry operations was about 350yds and that was a vehicle convoy being SAF ambushed while driving past a village/slum. We dismounted and started going MOUT, and never felt we had any issues with being range deprived. We did have lots of issues with being terminal performance deprived, but that’s a different story.
You can tell it’s a person at about 1000yds in open terrain; whether it’s somebody to shoot, you need to be much closer and have optics. You can tell somebody has a rifle with the naked eye at about 300yds, again in open terrain. Open terrain don’t happen much in Iraq IME.
I’m a Distinguished Master in NRA service rifle and long range, I’ve won state and national level trophies. I guess that means I shoot better than most. You can’t convince me that optics are not better than irons or that we need more range from our service rifles. In competition, I routinely hit 10+ B-mod silhouttes in 50 seconds at 600yds from the prone(with a match M16), but that’s a black target on a white background in a range environment. I guess that’s cool when we go fight the Somalis in Antarctica, but until then expect considerably less range performance.
BTW, all ranges measured in combat using Leica LRF1200, they’re the heat. S/F…Ken M
And here.
I think one of the problems here is thinking like conventional forces. The Iraqi’s are thinking (and dying) with the same mindset.
IF you think you can tangle with a conventional force from ‘outside’ (200 meters and beyond) then you will die.
Let me say that again.
IF you think you can tangle with a conventional force from ‘outside’ (200 meters and beyond) then you will die.
They (the conventional force) will just mortar, arty, CAS you into dust. It is plain to see. Sure the Iraqi’s kept our heads down for some duration of time. They may have even inflicted casualties. Did it alter their personal outcome?? NO - they are DEAD. Did it alter the outcome of the conflict?? NO - we are marching on. So - did their death contribute ANYTHING positive to their cause?? NO. Do you want to end up the same way with the same overall impact?? If your answer is ‘yes’ - then buy your .308 whatever and start taking pot shots a the modern conventional force if and when they ever show up here. You will end up dead - and your death will not have altered anything exceptthe marital status of your wife, and the increased burden on her to keep your children fed and protected.
The only chance is to target their weak areas, and hit them HARD and FAST. Choose whatever weapon that you can move the fastest with yet still have the ‘punch’ to inflict serious damage within 200 yards.
If you find your shots will be farther than 200 yards. STOP. Something is wrong and the best probable course of action is to NOT SHOOT and re-assess. Maybe it is best to withdraw and pick an ‘easier’ target. Or hit this one later when you can get closer.
If you don’t stay ‘inside’ - you will die. Conventional forces would rather spend $1,000,000 on ordnance than to expose one of their men to small arms fire. The farther away you are (esp from 200 meters out) the EASIER you just made thier job. Now they can hit you with whatever they want with no fear of endangering thier own troops to the effects of that ordnance. 200 meters is not even ‘danger close’ - so everything they have will come your direction. Is a .308 any match for mortar fire, Arty, CAS, or armor fire?
If one thinks like conventional forces, one will die.
cheers
tire iron
