Post YOUR Top 5 Manufacturers and WHY

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I’ve read the chart, and I’ll be the 1st to admit, I need to read it again and well AGAIN and AGAIN, tell all that makes sense to me…

as of right now I’m going by PURE speculation and what I have discovered in my “online research”

But basically wanted people to post their TOP THREE complete gun manufacturers and WHY they feel they are ranked as such… #4 and #5 just because I know people will do it anyways…

Here are mine in my “rookie” status and thru all my INTERNET learning…

  1. COLT - basically they seem to be WHAT everyone else is compared to… plus they supply our military, so thats a huge plus… PLUS they SEEM to be big on product quality and testing of said product. per the chart of course…

  2. BCM - besides what the EoF and Chart says… not really sure why… EXCEPT everyone and their MAMA (on forums ALL OVER the internet) is all about BCM and their HIGH QUALITY product…till two weeks ago and thanks to the internet, read:forums, I had NEVER EVEN heard of BCM… and I"M from WISCONSIN, which BCM calls homebase, actually they’re like 15 min’s from my house… but the chart and EoF and the hundreds of people I assume do not lie… so yeah thats why their #2 for me…

  3. Daniel Defense - Mainly again because EVERYONE on these forums (all over the internet) talk HIGH about DD, but hey the XV and M4 prices are really good from what I understand due to the whats included in them v/s Colt 6920 and 6940… tho the chart says DD uses 4150 CHF whereas COLT and BCM use B-11595E,hmm may have to research that…

  4. Noveske - KNOW nothing bout them, EXCEPT everyone always throws that name out…but they seem SUPER PRICEY!!

  5. Larue or is it called LWRC or LMT, not sure, but I see that thrown around alot as welll… something with an L…

NOW before I get crucified… just know that if I was told to make that list like 4 weeks ago it would be something like this…

  1. colt
  2. Bushmaster
  3. Armalite
  4. Stag Arms
  5. DPMS or something…

all that was just from hearsay, i.e. what I heard at my local gunshops…

2 weeks ago when I initially started doing research it would have been something like this…

  1. Colt
  2. Smith and Wesson
  3. Bushmaster
  4. RRA
  5. Stag Arms or Armalite…

SO i’m putting in work… and I’m almost there…

Its just that I’m greedy and want all 3 rifles at once… think about it like this… I have been scraping penny after penny for over FOUR YEARS and now I’m at $3000 and I don’t want to wait anymore!! Plus NOW seems to be the TIME to buy, ish is cheap all over! at least at Clyde Armory it is…

so PUT them up fella’s but more importantly the WHY’s behind how and why you ranked them as such!

THANK YOU!

oNe

p.s. In case ANYONE hasn’t seen my other essay long threads… my wants are simple

1 stock AR-15 basic iron sights and carry handle
1 AR-15 with a RIS, so that I can in the future trick out
1 AK-47 just because $500 for a rifle is NOTHING… seems STUPID cheap to me!

now deciding make and models is whats killing me… 2 weeks and still “learning” i mean researching…

2

Ranking of any sort would be purely subjective based on the ranker’s opinions and desires. It’s hard to pick a top 5, let alone rank them. And to clear up your confusion; Larue Tactical, LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool), and LWRCI are three different companies that put out very good rifles and accessories. LWRCI only makes piston rifles, which is why they are not on the chart. LMT makes piston and DI rifles. Larue focuses more on precision/designated marksman rifles.

3

Probably LMT is what you mean. LWRC makes rifles but they are piston guns (lwrci.com) and Larue makes parts including uppers and lowers but I don’t think makes finished guns. LMT is a top tier maker and they make guns.

4

The guns you’re going to see, in shuffling order, from the majority of seasoned members here, is:

Colt
Lewis Machine Tool (LMT)
Sabre Defence (yes, that’s actually how its spelled)
BCM
Daniel Defense
Noveske

BCM is brand new to the complete gun list, DD is also brand new. Noveske N4Ls are basically re-branded CMT with really nice barrels and handguards, so stick them wherever you want. Sabre lacks some of the specs that the others include.

Colt, LMT and BCM are gonna be the closest to TDP

“favorites” are realy subjective, and since I dont and havent ever purchased a complete gun, it’s hard for me to rank them as complete guns.

5

Agreed. I build my rifles. The list above is a good representation of what will be suggested. Mine would be as follows for an off-the-rack quality fighting rifle.

1.) BCM
2.) KAC
3.) Colt
4.) LMT
5.) Daniel Defence

I would put Larue and Noveske in the more “custom rifle” section though I love the N4 series.

S&W are doing well but still not quite what I’m looking for. All of my serious door-kickin’ kit is BCM (and their kool-aid tastes good :cool:)

6

kinda off topic but i noticed you mentioned clydes. do you live in ga?

7

Hello Sean,
There have been some very good suggestions and recommendations provided by very knowledgable members. The only issue I see in your criteria and choices is the fact that it may be difficult to purchase all three of the rifles you would like to have and stay within the $3K budget (no funds for ammo/ accessories, optics, etc.).

Again, as another member stated. Everyone else’s opinions are subjective, because in the end it is your needs/ requirements/ and preferences which will prevail. You are problaby just going to have to pull the trigger and make a choice and try-it on for size. I think that is why some have suggested purchasing (1) rifle as a baseline and working forward from there.

I wish you all the best with your purchase and may you enjoy the fruits of your labor and sacrafice.

SkiDevil

P.S. In consideration of your budget requirements, I would buy a BCM complete rifle from Grant or the basic DD AR rifle.

8

Recently the only AR15’s that seem to get my attention are LWRC’s

Prior to that I was pretty much strictly Colt

9

If you have been saving for 4 years for this you better check ammo prices if you are considering more than 1 firearm. If you use all of your savings to buy guns you will be left with buying a 20 round box of ammo when you go to the range.

10

What do you want it to do and how much are you willing to spend?

While this is the age-old admonishion of m4carb, it is very applicable.
For example- if you want to shoot service rifle competitions you will probably be a lot happier with one of the purpose built guns from BM (yuck) than the beloved 10.5 LMT. If you want to hit steel fast and hard it will be hard to do better than an LaRue or Noveske 18 incher. If you want to do a lot of high density training but are on a limited budget, the S&W 5.45 will be a better choice than an LWRC. If you just want to own an AR, you would probably be just as happy with something manufactured in Taiwan that shoots 6mm plastic balls.

The companies that produce similar quality and performance seem to price very close to each other. There are several companies that have an earned reputation for quality, and have been named already. There are also companies that turn out a better product for certain applications, which command a higher price.

While a Noveske might be cost-effective for me, it might not be for many others. I personally consider Noveske guns to be the epitome of the platform, pimples and all. When it comes to TDP adhering manufacturers, I think it is pretty hard to be able to honestly say that one is any better than the others unless you have experience and depth of knowledge on all of them. When most people make recommendations on these type of guns over others (in the “we build guns right” category) it is usually because the guy happened to accidentally buy something that we here at the snobbiest corner of the internet (:rolleyes:) “approve” of, and has had no personal issue with, or one that has met with previous approval by the board in general. What it boils down to is that most people simply do not shoot 12,000 rounds a year through one gun, let alone 5 different manufacturers’ guns. Even then, you are dealing with such low density that making any statement would be much less about the manufacturer than the individual gun.

The best source for info comes from those that either-
a) work on a large number of these guns and can track trends
b) sees a lot of these guns in known round-count events and tracks trends

Taking a Colt/BCM/LMT/DD out to the range semi-annually and blasting through half of a case of ammo might instill the individual owner with some sense of validation, but it doesn’t really mean much when it comes to high volume comparison that would be necessary to make a noteworthy comparison.

The top (really the minimum) performers are known and clearly indicated. Pick one, get the right support items, and go get quality training and a lot of bullets to practice with. Stock-piled ammo does nothing for skill increase, bullets spent wisely and with a plan and goal will do you far more benefit than 10X that number hiding in your closet next to your pristine Uber-AR.

Just my perspective.

11

Here’s my pick;

  1. Noveske
  2. LMT
  3. KAC
  4. BCM
  5. Colt

No offense but I’ve never been a Colt Fanboy (handguns nor long guns)…I’d pick something else that’s equal or better rather then Colt, not saying they aren’t good.

12

And my OPINIONS, but they are based on my own experiences. My favorites are carbines I build, plain and simple. But for manufactured rifles they are the following;

Noveske
Daniel Defense
Defensive Edge
LMT
Colt

I own or have owned at 1 time all of the above. I also do not prefer Colts but they do work.

13

Gentleman,

First of All, THANK YOU for taking the time to reply and drop input!

Unfortunately, I do not live in GA, I live in WISCONSIN, one of the two remaining states in the union that doesn’t trust its own citizens with the right to carry… but we’re close doyle’s not gonna run for reelection, :slight_smile: OH YEAH!!

THING IS THIS, Since my layoff almost a year ago, I have been unemployed…BUT NOW I have a job on the line… its practically 99.9999999% good, contingent on my successfulll passing of a drug test and background check…BOTH of which are NOT a problem…

So even if I ONLY buy the rifles today…assuming I get the job, I should have more funds readily available in the near future… YES they might just be trophy pieces in the beginning but at least their there… and well HAVING the rifles in hand is I think the FIRST BIG STEP towards the end result, i.e. having them “tricked” out to my personal like…

PLUS the other thing is… seems prices are pretty much at rock bottom now right? I mean if there was a time to buy it would be NOW is my guess… a DD M4 for ONLY $1400 or better yet, the DD XV for $999? I mean the supposably lesser guys like BM and DPMS and RRA’s dont even have that good quality rifle for less then $1000 right?

BUT YES, lack of ammo aside, and trick toys, I am HELL BENT on getting all 3 of them at the same time…

SIDES which, the area i live in, near Milwaukee… well NONE of the ranges ALLOW for shooting .223/5.56 ammo anyways… the closest range that allows it, is about 1.5-2hrs away… so yeah hopefully that kinda shows where I’m coming from…

Trophy pieces aside, I mean I basically want them for plinking and home defense…which apparently the BM’s and DPMS and RRA’s would suffice… but according to you guys… the complete DD’s or the BCM from grant are PRACTICALLY a steal, price wise v/s those other makes… so for almost the same price as a BM, DPMS, or RRA I would be getting a FARLY SUPERIOR weapon, so its a no brainer…

now back to the list…

KAC, Sabre Defence, HOLY COW, once again some new ones I never heard of… and once again NOVESKE right up there… what is the deal with NOVESKE huh? lot of clout there…

Guys, I appreciate the lists… but what was more important at least to me… I wanted to know WHY you ranked each and everyone in the order you ranked them? as much info as you would like, would help me and others SEE HOW and WHY some of these makes get the CLOUT they have…

also I have been to more then 5 guns shops in my area…and even a couple out in the Fort Worth, TX area… and NONE of these guys mention anyone outside of COLT, BM, DPMS, RRA and S&W…

EVEN in Wisconsin, with BCM only like 15mins from my house…NOT a SINGLE dealer even so much as hinted at them… they looked at me like a deer in headlights when I asked them to tell me about Daniel Defense…

the INTERNET is my only friend here… and teacher…

oNe

14

There is a reason for this. BCM has exactly two Distributors (with us being one of them).

So you are not going to find BCM at your local gun shops or at gun shows.

BCM is a small operation turning out quality weapons (some of the best actually).

C4

15

Wow. Well said. The whole post. I think your perspective is spot on. Sean are you listening?

I think, and this is my opinion only folks, that the OP may be getting a bit bogged down on his decision making process. Perhaps making things too complicated? I don’t know. It almost sounds like (and I’m just guessing here) that he wants the forum members to make the decision for him because he’s over analyzed things. Just speculating out loud here, I could be completely off.

I think one of the biggest obstacles here is the need to buy all three guns at once. I’m still not sure of the reason why all three need to be purchased at once other than he’s been saving for them for a long time. As others have stated, the current budget will probably not be enough to do all three and still have some money left over for consumables (ammo), some basic but necessary accessories and perhaps some training, unless such items will be obtained outside of the existing budget.

Sean, perhaps you could lighten the load here and work one gun at a time. As F2S suggested, pick a manufacturer and get to work. By going one gun at a time, what you’ll learn on the first gun may help you make a better decision on what you want (or NEED) on the second and third guns. While it may be true that gun prices are reasonable now and it’s probably a good time to buy, why put all that pressure on yourself to hit three home runs your first three times at bat? If you end up with three guns that don’t really suit your needs, it won’t matter if you bought them for a good price.

As I said in a previous post, it took me months just to pick out one gun. You’re trying to research and purchase three with just a few weeks worth of research. Although this has probably been suggested already, I think it bears repeating. I say break it down and concentrate on one gun at a time. The money you’ve saved for this isn’t going anywhere I assume? If that’s the case, you have time to make well informed decisions on what you want. Of the three guns, prioritize which you want first and go from there. Good luck! :slight_smile:

16

There’s not much to say after F2S’s post, but some random thoughts…

While most of the lists cover the quality makers, it should be pointed out that Colt does some things that nobody else does that do set them apart. Their receiver extensions, for example are forged while everyone else’s is cast. Email LMT and ask them if they are forged or cast and they’ll not only tell you that they are forged but they’ll ask you why anyone would want a forged one. Now I’m not saying that everyone needs a forged receiver extension but I am saying that the Chart, and it’s list of features, is certainly not the be-all, end-all of lists of what makes for a quality AR. Gas key material is another issue, as is steel used for the bolt itself, quality of springs used in the lower, etc. So while there are a lot of good options out there, I don’t think that anyone is hitting every single point that Colt is, and I think that those that have chosen the “fanboy” label to throw at Colt are displaying their own ignorance. It is just my opinion, but if you want the very best “fighting” M4-pattern firearm available on the commercial market, you buy a Colt.

There are, however, features that some people may feel outweigh things like receiver extension material. Features like hammer forged barrels, or midlength gas systems, or integral rails, heavier chrome-lining in a barrel, or the BUIS the guns comes with, etc. Those are all things that you need to educate yourself on and use to make up your own mind.

On the subject of buying three guns at once…

It may have been already addressed, but I’d take one Colt 6920 ($1200), 11 magazines ($120), 2k rounds of ammo ($600), and Aimpoint ($500), a sling ($50),and a three day class from a quality instructor ($500), over three shrubmasters or Rock Rivers anyday. Coincidentally all of the above adds up to $2,970. Use the extra $30 and get a Magpul MOE pistol grip and a gapper to replace the stock A2 grip.

17

I’m by no means an SME on this board, but I came into the black rifle world much as you are. For what it’s worth, I’ll give you my picks.

In case ANYONE hasn’t seen my other essay long threads… my wants are simple

1 stock AR-15 basic iron sights and carry handle

Look at three models: Colt 6920, Daniel Defense XV, BCM Complete M4 (mid-length or carbine). Of those three, only the 6920 comes with the carry handle rather than some other rear iron sight, but they are all flat-top uppers so you could easily swap for a carry handle if that’s what you really want. If it were me, I’d go with the BCM mid-length as is and never look back.

1 AR-15 with a RIS, so that I can in the future trick out

I assume that by RIS you mean a rail system of some sort. I wouldn’t settle on one of those until you have a good idea exactly what kind of “tricking out” you want to do… and you probably won’t know that until you go shoot the gun and figure out what makes sense for you. I’d guess the three most commonly added rail-mount accessories are an optic, a white light, and some sort of vertical foregrip or handstop… but how you’ll want them configured depends on your shooting style. For instance, a friend of mine has a nice, efficiently set up build with a light and EOTech that I virtually can’t use. Do some hands-on research before you drop the money on extras.

now deciding make and models is whats killing me… 2 weeks and still “learning” i mean researching…

I did three months worth of study on here and elsewhere before placing an order, and I still don’t know much.

Good luck and have fun
fme

18

Colt
LMT
Noveske
KAC
BCM

19

I wish I had this advice 6 years ago when I was just starting. And Rob_s does seem to know what he is talking about.

20
  1. Colt
  2. Noveske
  3. LMT
  4. BCM
  5. Daniel Defense

That being said, my three AR’s were chosen for the following reasons:

  1. Colt 6921: Because they cannot be considered to be anything but the standard. Colt has been making these for our military for a long time, and for a long time, they have been getting the job done in every environment you can think of and have been doing it well. The barrel may not be the most accurate or toughest when compared to Noveske or something of the like, but it gets it’s job done perfectly fine for it’s intended use. I just couldn’t see my collection not having a Colt included.

  2. Noveske N4 w/ Switch-Block: Because they are known for making solid and battle worthy components, but more so because they are known for producing some of the best barrels you can find for the AR15. For my application of this rifle I wanted very high accuracy,reliability, and a good silencer host before all else…and I knew this rifle would fit the bill.

  3. Lewis Machine & Tool MRP: Because LMT is also known for making very serious use weapons with very good accuracy. Their internal components are widely used in heavy-use rifles with great success. In this case, I chose the MRP upper platform because I wanted a 9" handguard since my other two rifles had 7" carbine length handguards. I had carbine-training courses in mind when I bought this rifle and wanted the extra hand rail length for different shooting positions and hot-barrel protection. I wanted a barrel that would allow me to not only switch lengths, but also easily replace once they were worn out…as I planned on using this rifle for training and would put the most rounds downrange with it.

In the end, I have no doubt that any of the rifles being suggested will serve you equally well. Now that you have these big names to chose from, your main goal should be to tailor each rifle for a specific need or type of shooting you want to use it for. Most of the veteran shooters on this board will determine their specific need/intended use for a rifle long before picking a company to go with…And I mean VERY specific needs. AR’s are like golf-clubs, with each different intended use can come a completely different setup and the shooters here have the experience to tell them what will or will not work for them.

The only trouble I see with what you’re doing is that you are trying to chose all these rifles at once…without having the experience to tell you what you’re really going to need/want in the end. I’m 90% confident that if you buy 3 rifles without doing more thinking/research/shooting, you are going to end up selling or trading at least one of them if you stay in this hobby for very long. With all these top of the line manufacturers, its not about deciding who is the best, but who makes a particular configuration that suits you best.

Good luck and have fun in your process!!

-Mike