and if it is just laugh and carry on. Was wondering if there would be enough length to run buis on the right side of a 10" DD lite handguard? So that if I did not have a co witness scope or rings I could just twist the rifle to the side and use the irons. I know I have seen some guys run red dots in competitions by twisting the rifle to one side and shooting. Curious if this would work.?. I’m thinking that the sight radius may be a bit too short.
JP or Vtac, cant remember which, has a front/rear combo sight that’s designed to go on at 45 degrees on a vtac handguard… did a quick search, but didnt dig it up- somebody else will know wat im talking about.
otherwise, putting both buis on a handguard would just be silly… snag-happy and a durability issue, i would think.
please tell us about it if you do it.
bkb - maybe you are remembering the JP SHORT RANGE TACTICAL SIGHT?
this be it
Right on, not something I really had planed on doing just a thought I had. thanks for the replies and as funny as that pic is, gangsta not FTW…More than likely going to run a 1 o’clock mount and a dot.
Retracted
I am getting fed up with the retard commentary that has been going on lately - this is M4C, not some other site.
OP, there are offset rail solutions that place optics or irons at something much better than a 90 degree angle.
I was always taught (mostly in basic training) that canting the weapon will screw with the rounds trajectory thus affecting overall accuracy. However, recently while firing with gas masks on we were taught to cant the rifle slightly to make aiming easier. We fired at old beat up metal targets though, so while you can hear the round striking the target it’s nearly impossible to tell where exactly. So I couldn’t tell effectively if it did or didn’t affect trajectory. Any truth to this?
short answer, yes… but there are several instances when canting the weapon 45, or even 90 degrees is the best option. wearing a pro-mask, as you said, and urban-prone firing position, not least of all.
as to the aerial ballistics part, you’re not changing the weapon’s ballistics- the round will still follow the exact same ballistic path it normally would. but you ARE changing the relationship between POA and POI (point of aim, impact). when you fire a weapon, you’re not lasering the round to the target- you’re, in effect, dropping the round on the topic, due to friction and gravity causing the ballistic arc. your sights, which are on a different parallel than your bore, will not be parallel to a spot to the left or right and below the bore’s parallel, when you cant the weapon. so long as you take this POA/POI shift into account at distances past your zero mark, you can still be plenty effective.
generally any time you’re canting the weapon, you’re engaging targets inside 100m… and at these distances, so long as you don’t need through-the-eyeball accuracy, you’re not going to experience difficult change. especially with a 50m zero.
ETA… importantly- of course, all of the above is totally taken out of the equation to a great degree by having your sights on the same angle as the cant of the weapon… which is why we’re even having this conversation. now you’re just limited by the radius of the chosen sight system.
It depends on the relationship of the bore and sights to gravity. As long as the bore is between the sights and the ground it makes no differences what the angel of the weapon. So if you have some back up sights that are offset at 45 degrees and you turn the weapon 45 degrees when firing then everything lines up.
Interesting. Sorry for the threadjack btw.
No problem, that is a good write up bkb0000. Yeah, the sight radius was the real worry with running standard buis so close to each other. well My curiosity is satisfied, thanks for the replies(for the most part).
OP, there is a pic floating around on here of a gun belonging to gotm4 that I believe he uses for rifle matches. One set of irons mounted on top and then another set mounted to DD 45 degree mounts (or something similar). If you’re really interested you should check that out. Sorry I can’t find it now, I’ll look again tomorrow when I’m on a better connection. Maybe the AR picture thread or the Magpul AFG thread???
Ok, thanks. I will dig around and see what I can find.
Don’t know if this is exactly the pic I was thinking of but take a look at the second rifle down. I’m sure if you pm him, he might give you the scoop.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=534769&postcount=244
and second gun in this thread?
Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. Still seems like the 10" hand guard is going to make the sight radius too short for reliable use of iron sights, even at shorter distances. Thanks for the leg work Bud. To Glockeyed, that is the type of setup I speak of it’s just that those tactical BUIS like those look like they would snag way more than regular BUIS that could fold down.
10" sight radius is much greater than most pistols, and they shoot pretty good in shorter ranges, ie. under 40 m.
I’ve seen guys shoot like that. Some well known. It just would never feel right for me.