Police: Man shot churchgoers over liberal views

General General Discussion
1

Personally, I think this is a taste of things to come. Expect more of this as people just get tired of having big gov’t and liberal views forced down their throats, and not even the church offers refuge from perverts, pedophiles and progressives…

All that said, all I see is another reason to carry in church, because this world is full of loons

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080728/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. - Knoxville’s police chief says the man accused of a shooting that killed two people at a Tennessee church targeted the congregation because of its liberal social stance.

Chief Sterling Owen IV said Monday that police found a letter in Jim D. Adkisson’s car. Owen said Adkisson was apparently frustrated over being out of work and had a “stated hatred of the liberal movement.”

Adkisson is charged with first-degree murder. Police say a gunman entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church during a children’s performance Sunday. No children were hurt.

The church is known for advocating women’s and gay rights and founding an American Civil Liberties Union chapter.

2

Heard this on the radio yesterday morning. I can not agree with this kind of violence but I have no sympathy for those who use the Bible to shield their evil (kindest word I could use) agenda.

3

Aside from the pain he caused by killing unarmed people, he will give loopty-loos a big shot in the arm by victimizing them. We, as conservative gun owners will get painted with this brush. Thanks, douche.:mad:

4

I disagree in the sense I think it is much more likely the man’s motives were irrational, driven more by mental illness and/or the basic inability to cope with life (note that he was unemployed) than hatred of liberals.

On a personal note, I am supporter of many government programs and therefore could be accused of supporting big government. I believe in non-discrimination against gay people, which I do not consider the same as supporting pedophiles or perverts. In general I support many so-called liberal programs, probably more so than the average person on this board, and find the notion that people are more likely to kill me because of that to be a bit disconcerting. I guess if it was true all the more reason to carry :slight_smile:

I agree that carrying in a church, like carrying anywhere is wise. This is just another of many examples that churches elicit strong emotions that can set crazy people off.

5

Too bad one of those “Liberal” church goers was not armed.

Note, yet another coward chooses to attack the “sheeple” where no one is guarding the herd.

I suppose designating that church a gun-free zone would have prevented this tragedy. :confused:

Irregardless of the churches alleged liberal views and social stance, my thoughts are with the victims, especially the children who had to witness this, and their families.

6

This isnt the first time there has been a shooting in a house of worship, so the idea of a gun free zone inside of a church is absurd.

If I were crazy, or wanted to send a message written in blood and guts, I’m walking into a church with an AK47 and a lot of worshippers as targets because I know there will be little opposition.

7

I am sorry to hear about the deaths & injuries. However that being said I have been to a Unitarian Universalist Church & I can understand some one wanting to stroll in with shotgun. Not saying I condone it but that I can understand

8

my thoughts and prayers are with the 2 deceased, as well as their families.

does TN forbid carrying in churches?

9

VB, this was sarcasm. Some states have designated churches as “Gun Free Zones”, where as other individual churches, as private property owners, have chose to do the same. You may as well post a neon sign saying “Open, innocent victims inside”.

10

Sounds like a false flag event to me; older, disgruntled, southern, WHITE guy - mad @ gays & liberals, and just HAPPENS to shoot up a congregation of the most liberal church in America. Sarah Brady has wet dreams about stuff like this; so does the OBAMINATION camp, I’m sure. :rolleyes:

Plus, he was using an ordinary ol’ shotgun - so much for the innocuous ‘hunting’ gun - better ban ‘em ALL - JUST to be 'safe,’ will be the hoplophobes’ cry. :rolleyes:

Seems TOO convenient to me…

Bob :mad:

11

I could say the same thing, jhs1969 – but I’d be talking about the shooter.

12

Amazing how things have gotten to finally coming full circle, when white men first came to America they were attacked in every place you can think of.
Including worship services, by those who were hostile to them.

Now, it is happening again, but this time people are disarmed through illegal “laws” and by being ignorant and servile.

So to paraphrase a very smart man, “Those who dont know history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past”.

13

While I might not be much opposition to a guy with an AK, especially if he knows how to use it. You might get a surprise or two in my church, maybe more depending on whose in attendance that morning… :smiley:

My prayers and condolences with the members.

-RD62

14

No joke. What ever happened to the idea of each person being left to live their own lives as they see fit so long as it does not interfere with the rights of someone else. I think they had a words for that once. Weren’t they Freedom and Liberty?

15

Liberals have a different view of the world…Progressives/leftist by nature require continuous encroachment on the rights

16

and hard core right wingers (the opposites of the the professives/lefists) dont? Please be aware that I’m not taking issue with you or anyone. I’m just ranting about something that has been eating at me for a while and that post happened to be the one that grabbed my attention. Whats been eating me? Glad you asked. Its the realization that both the left and the right want to remake the world over in their own image and screw anyone and their freedom and liberties who aren’t on their band wagon. Both sides are about people control and I’m fed up with it. I’m over the ‘freedom for me but not for thee’ mindset that both parties and many people exhibit in spades. My POV is that if someone is doing something and it doesn’t impinge upon my rights or liberties I couldn’t care less what consenting adults are doing, be it two guys running around in an otter suit or making hand loads. I find myself wishing for another Barry Goldwater to rise from the ashes even though I’m too young to have lived back then. Ron Paul is about as close as we got to it and look how well that went. Like I said, sorry about the rant, but that post, coupled with a craptacular day, elicited this from me. Once again, my apologies if you or anyone else takes this personaly as that is not my intent.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program

17

Talk about a small world, herd rumors at work today that he used to work with us. One person’s description sort of hit me a little strange, I had a picture in my mind which guy it might have been. My wife downloaded a pic of him from the local news station. WOW. It was the guy I had pictured in my mind.

I had never really talked to him (heard him rant a couple of times in the $hitter), didn’t work near him but observed him at lunch breaks and had heard second hand how he tended to rub people the wrong way. Sort of reminded me of an overage hippie who never gave up the pot, the booze and maybe the LSD too.

I don’t know much about this church, but if it promotes homosexual life styles (I had heard this but am uncertain) and the other liberal life styles then I can not muster a lot of sympathy. Hearing of this kind of tragedy that violently breaks apart families is just heart wrenching, but in my mind if I go against the Bible and worse, if I use the Bible to justify these kinds of thoughts/life styles then I would expect God’s punishment. But this punishment belongs to God alone, no man has the right judge and punish at will! May God have mercy on the innocent children involved, this, in my opinion, is where sympathy is needed. I tend to try to stay neutral on these things most of the time as I don’t know first hand what this church is about, but you’ll never find me in attendance in any organization that even slighlty leans toward these liberal views. The Bible is meant to be used as is, not twisted and turned to justify anything!!

I would have prefered some CCW holder stop this (and other) sick individual from their homicidal act regardless of the people being attacked beliefs. It would only futher the 2nd Amendment’s purpose.

Getting back to this sick’o, what little I had seen him I had uneasy feelings about him, just makes me wonder about the ‘sixth sense’ feelings I sometimes get about people. My wife sometimes thinks I some weird power to read people but I can usually pick up on something that is not quite ‘right’. I haven’t got around to it yet but anyone who wants to get up to speed on this can go to wbir.com

18

FWIW, from folks I’ve spoken to and from what I have seen, about the only thing UU churches promote is an acceptance, understanding, and tolerance of all with no restriction on race, religion, creed, or orientation. The radical right winger and the looney lefty are equally welcome as are the Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc… But at the same time everyone is expected to be equally tolerant and loving of one another. From what I saw and heard, during their services folks break off into groups usually centered around the religion they identify with. They then discuss their scripture (be it found in the Talmud, Bible, Koran, etc…) They then return and discuss what they got out of the scripture and how they can grow into more loving, caring, kind people and then spread that into their community. In some ways it sounds similar to what Christ promoted in loving your neighbor equally. So if they are guilty of promoting an attitude like that, hey, I could think of a lot more worse things to be promoting. Sure they are defiantly left leaning in some ways, but I see a wide gulf between that and the typical ramming socialism down someones throat that the politicians try.

Now would I attend? Nah. I checked em out, did a little research, but that was about it. I don’t see UU as being for me. They came across as being incredibly unrealistic dreamers (think hippies with out the drugs but with soap and water and a work ethic). To be honest that willful ignorance of the nasty nature of the world around them and the touchy feeley side of things have no personal appeal. But then again I’ve reached the point to where I think man, through organized religion, has corrupted what God said through his prophets and what Jesus said in his sermons. This also applies to the other religions out there in my view.

Anyways, food for thought. Do what you want with it, but I hope it gives you some insight. They arent promoting homosexuality (I think nature takes care of that) or any other concept other than promoting loving your neighbor as you would love yourself, and if that means having to include a homosexual in the category of being a neighbor, well your mileage may vary.

19

Thanks for your insights, this definetly makes me soften my own views. Acceptence is not quite the same as promotion. We all have to have a good dose of acceptence to make it in this world. A local radio station called this church ‘homosexual friendly’, more than a little misleading in my opinion as this was the first news I had heard of it and it went a long way in shaping my opinion. I just read the news report, I didn’t even have the intention of doing this until I learned of this connection, and I should have done more investigating before my first posts. This is not quite the ‘gay church’ I had thought it to be. Let me be a good example, try not to form strong opinions based on heresay and mis-information and may mercy be extended to all involved.

I had thought of ‘carrying’ during church before and after this and other events such as this in the past couple of years I belive it may be a wise thing to consider. A sidearm in the car does no good in a similar situation.

BTW this creep worked as a temp. for my company, he was booted from the stamping area to the assembly area because of a serious altercation with a permenant employee. I do not know any details beyond this.

Again apologizes to all for my ignorance.

20

Yeah, those liberal parishioners represented a serious threat to society, didn’t they? :rolleyes:

Although Unitarian Universalists proclaim no formal creed and aren’t a Christian denomination, per se, here’s what they say about themselves:

What do Unitarian Universalists believe?

WE BELIEVE in the freedom of religious expression. All individuals should be encouraged to develop their own personal theologies, and to present openly their religious opinions without fear of censure or reprisal.

WE BELIEVE in the tolerance of religious ideas. All religions, in every age and culture, possess not only intrinsic merit, but also potential value for those who have learned the art of listening.

WE BELIEVE in the authority of reason and conscience. The ultimate arbiter in religion is not a church, nor a document, nor an official, but the personal choice and decision of the individual.

WE BELIEVE in the never-ending search for Truth. If the mind and heart are truly free and open, the revelations that appear to the human spirit are infinitely numerous, eternally fruitful, and wondrously exciting.

WE BELIEVE in the unity of experience. There is no fundamental conflict between faith and knowledge, religion and the world, the sacred and the secular, since they all have their source in the same reality.

WE BELIEVE in the worth and dignity of each human being. All people on earth have an equal claim to life, liberty, and justice – and no idea, ideal, or philosophy is superior to a single human life.

WE BELIEVE in the ethical application of religion. Good works are the natural product of a good faith, the evidence of an inner grace that finds completion in social and community involvement.

And here’s what they say about their religious-education curricula:

“We need to understand our connection with our liberal religious heritage: the Jewish and Christian roots from which we spring; the Eastern religious traditions that have nurtured us; the insights of philosophy and science that have expanded our knowledge; and our mystical sense of union with one another, our planet, and the universe.”

Some threat, eh?

Let’s just tell the truth about what happened here – Jim David Adkisson felt he had license to execute these people because they weren’t acceptably Christian enough, straight enough, white enough and, Lord knows, not nearly conservative enough.

Anything resembling sympathy for either his actions or what motivated him poses a far greater danger to this country than than the members of Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church ever could.