I have read and researched until my eyes are near bleeding and the POF and LWRC seem to be on the top of the heap for reliable quality AR10 with the POF leading the way because of the C.R.OS. & NP3 finish that seem to be self lubricating and diminish the need for cleaning.
With the exception of one forum that says
Anyone here have any hands on experience with POF? Opinions?
Anyone here have any hands on experience with POF? Opinions?
I don’t have any hands on experience with the POF equipment but I’d sure figure the opinions/experiences of these two individuals as weighing considerably on my purchase.
Good Luck, Keith
I’ve had the REPR for a few months now and I’ve been very pleased with it. I don’t have any experience with the POF, so I can’t compare the two, but I’ll answer any questions about the LWRC.
What’s the pull of a piston over a DI gun?
What do you mean by “pull”?
I have a 20" P-308. I like the rifle, but life has gotten in the way of being able to run much ammo through it. Right now I’ve put a little less than 200 rounds through it. It appears to be very accurate, and has gotten a little less picky with the ammo.
The purchase process was long and painful. It could have gone better on both ends. If I had it to do over, I might just buy from a stocking dealer, but that wasn’t an option at the time of order. I have heard that they have gotten easier to deal with.
This weekend I had a 4 shot group at 100 yds that was about 1" sq with 150 gr. Federal PowerShock and a 5 shot group at 200 yds with Horniday that was looking better till the 5th.
A couple more range trips and I should have a better feel for it. Right now I am the weak link to getting better groups.
I don’t have any experience with the LWRC, but one of my friends is determined to get one. It will be interesting to run them side by side.
In doing little research on the subject you will find that people do not find POF’s to be reliable. Many also complain about the bulk of the handguard. I personally would for the repr. Lots of good things about those overall.
One of your potential candidates is actually getting a lot of ab/use here in 'stan (in fairly large #s) and their CS is 2nd to none.
That would be LWRCi.
I bought mine in the early summer of '08 - realizing that Der Kommissar Obamassar was well on his way to victory. :rolleyes: I WANTED the LWRC actually, but at that time, LWRC was backed up over 17 weeks on delivery - I was able to get the POF-415 - 16SX12 (the configuration I wanted) right away.
The POF is VERY accurate, and built of quality material. That said, it’s still NOT perfect, out of the box. Here’s a few mods I’ve made to mine, in the 2 1/2 years I’ve had it.
replaced the Timney single-stage trigger, with a Rock River 2-stage - a better trigger for a CQB weapon, than the the Timney’s match/target style trigger. Yeah, a Geissele Trigger WOULD have been MUCH better - I’m WORKING on that!
replaced the milspec buffer tube, with a PWS enhanced buffer tube. Like MOST piston rifles, buffer tube erosion was already showing after 200 rounds of brass-cased, quality ammo (Homey is an ammo snob - I don’t do steel-cased ammo, outside of my AK)! Seth Harness’ anti-tilt buffer is NEXT on the list of upgrades!
replaced the carbine spring and buffer, with Dave Tubb’s SSS flatwire spring, & G&R Tactical H2 buffer. The unique nature of piston rifle recoil makes such upgrades highly desirable, if not a necessity!
BCM extractor upgrade, especially since POF stuck a blue (rifle) insert into the ejector spring.
replaced the Vltor clubfoot stock, with a Vltor EMod, to try and balance it out weight-wise (weighs about as much as an unloaded Garand now - something to keep in mind if you want to own one).
replaced the POF front sight, with Troy BUIS (G3-style front sight)
replaced the charger with a BCM/Vltor Gunfighter Mod.4 (medium) charger
As you can see, even a high-end piston rifle, STILL needs tweaking, to get it ‘up-to-snuff.’
Does it run cleaner, with that eletroless nickle chamber? ABSOLUTELY! But where does the dirt GO? Out the front, by the front sight, under and around the rails. Dirt doesn’t magically “disappear” - it’s GOTTA go somewhere, and it’s STILL gotta be cleaned. Everything’s a tradeoff in life - piston rifles are no different.
All this said, here’s a few DO’S and DON’TS I’ve come up with, after 2 years of piston AR ownership;
DON’T buy a piston AR, if it’s going to be your ONLY AR - you’ll be better served by a QUALITY DI rifle for the price!
DON’T buy a piston AR, if it’s your FIRST AR - learn the family, before you start branching out into different species!
DON’T buy a piston AR, if you’re lazy and just don’t like cleaning your AR - a piston rifle is still a mechanical device, which mixes dirt and oil in hard-to-reach places. You WILL be breaking down the rifle to clean it, or the rifle WILL break down. This is a fact of life, whether you’re dealing with automobiles, air conditioners, or AR-15’s. CLEAN them, or LOSE them.
DON’T buy a piston rifle, if you like your AR’s light & compact. They are bulky and heavy, particularly in the nose, and unless you can change the atomic structure of metal , nothing in the world will ALTER that.
DON’T buy an AR, if you’re enamored of rail systems that DON’T come with it. The piston/op-rod CANNOT be reshaped, and if you simply MUST have a Daniel Defense Omega rail on your rifle, you’re in for some BIG disappointment! And that big, high-centered PROPRIETARY rail will DEFINITELY affect your hold-off. I spent a day with The_Khatar last summer shooting high, before we both realized JUST how much higher that rail ACTUALLY is.
DON’T buy a piston AR, if you think you’re getting a ‘Star Trek phaser on setting 16.’ It ain’t. Like all firearms, it may - or may NOT - be made of better quality material, and to tighter tolerances, but it will still only be as accurate as the man behind the trigger.
All that said, there are some “DO’s” to piston rifle ownership, if you are so inclined.
DO buy the best quality rifle/upper you can. LWRC & POF are tops in my book - LMT & Addax are VERY good as well! This rule holds true for MOST things in life. Drop-in conversions can be kinda shakey - you’re modifying a rifle that WASN’T designed with a piston in mind. This stresses pieces and parts in unexpected ways, which can lead to unexpected breakages! Better to get an actual rifle/upper designed from the ground up, with the piston in mind.
DO buy a piston rifle, if you’re already familiar with the AR platform, and would like to try something different!
DO buy a piston AR, if you have one or more DI AR’s.
DO push your piston AR - take it to training, & find out how it handles under stress, so that you can find out what it’ll really DO! Or, NOT do! In our PA/OH/WV study group, I’ve had good success with my POF, and have tweaked it accordingly. It did have a good case stick/FTE at our last session, attributable to poor ammo. It was a good teaching moment on the range. A good reminder also, that electroless nickel is NOT a ‘magic FTF/FTE repellant’ - POF can choke on ammo, same as the NEXT rifle.
DO lube your piston AR. The marketing department’s job is to sell refrigerators to Eskimos - YOUR job, is to make sure your rifle is in PRIME OPERATING CONDITION at all times! If your mfg. says it “never needs lube,” then let THEM run THEIRS that way. That advice, is NOT intended for you & YOUR rifles!
DO clean your rifle! This better be self-explanatory by NOW.
DO learn your stand-off (hold-over) QUICKLY! This point BEARS repeating; that higher rail - to accomodate your piston/op-rod - makes a difference. A BIG difference!!! At seven yards, putting my Trijicon dot over the heart, results in a shot BETWEEN THE EYES! If you DON’T think this is important, or you don’t want to learn different standoffs between different platforms, then DON’T mess with a piston rifle.
DO read the instruction manual; it AIN’T the same as your DI rifle, the internals ARE different, and if you DON’T know this, and something breaks, you’re going to end up with a VERY expensive club.
In conclusion, for the EXPERIENCED AR afficianado, the piston rifle is as pleasant a diversion, as a redhead is to a blonde to Agent 007. But the piston rifle accomplishes NOTHING that a quality DI rifle can’t do, it DOES have some unusual eccentricities that MUST be accounted for (buffer tube erosion, sight stand-off, etc.), and a good one, AIN’T cheap. Knowing these things BEFOREHAND, you too can own one, & be free to say with a straight face, “To each his OWN.”
Here’s what mine looked like not too long ago, once I had a “good” setup for it.
I’m now working with Kevin Johnson, of Johnson Tactical here in Pittsburgh, on a new direction for this rifle. I’ve decided… to SPR it. 
It’s an interesting challenge, to say the least. I already have three other DI middy rifles though, and a fourth one in a piston is pretty redundant. The piston SBR has already BEEN done, so we’re going to take a different tack with this one. I’ll keep you posted…
I’d agree with nearly all of what The War Wagon says. POF is a love em or hate em company.
I picked up a used POF 11.5" 5.56 upper. Not only was it a good value, but the previous owner got POF to work all of the kinks out of it before I got it. 
It will run unsuppressed with the piston plug in the suppressed setting, with a Sprinco “RED” spring (which is what you’d use with an overgassed carbine system anyway) and a DPMS 5.4 oz buffer. The recoil is minimal and a very smooth shooter.
For the sight offset, just put your optics in a low LaRue or ADM mount. Same deal with Vltor’s CASV.
As for weight, I don’t find the POF that much heavier than my CHF Daniel Defense 12.5". Maybe 6-8 ounces at most?
I will be running it hard at a class with Mike Pannone and that will be the test for this SBR.
It’s obvious that you didn’t do much, if any, of your research here before posting your question, or else your order would probably be a bit different. Search on “LMT MWS” and “KAC EMC” and you’ll find a lot of good info on additional options. Good luck in your search!
Not to get OT, but I went with a JP LRP-07 for my first .308. There are lots of great options, but I like the customer service from JP and it has been 100% relaible with everything I’ve put through it.
The non-reciprocating side charging handle and LMOS make a great rifle.
I’ve saving up for my next .308 which will be a KAC SR-25 EMC.
I’m sure there are people out there who have spent 1/3 as much me and can shoot faster and more accurate than me with their rifles, but this is just my choice.
I have been searching for a good .308 AR system as well and have done a little research. From what I’ve found, it seems like more people are pleased with the LWRC rifles than the POF rifles. I haven’t shot the POF but I have shot the REPR and I really liked the feel of it. Out of the two, I would go with the LWRC based off my research. Like has been mentioned though, there are other good options. I’ve heard great things about KAC
Sorry, I’m not referring to LOP or anything. I’m just wondering what the attraction was to the piston vs. DI.
No, bro… that’s what I thought, actually. Honestly, I can’t make any sense of it. Every class that I’ve attended where piston guns were ran, at least one experienced a failure. Truth. Maybe some developments have been made, but I’m skeptical. It seems like the piston theory is trying to solve the non existent problems of the tried and true di platform. Now, sure… I’ve seen di weapons fail, but the ratio of di failures to the number of di guns ran is far less then the ratio of piston failures to the number of piston guns ran, at least from the observations I’ve made.
The War Wagon, thank you for that very informative post! I learned alot.
That’s what I was getting at.
POF barrels are nitrided, not electroless nickel.
A lot of the guys out here where I work were issued POF .308s and their general opinion is “meh…” they’re run and gun type of guys, do a crap-ton of shooting and know what shoots well and what doesn’t. They’re saying they can’t get really good groups with them and they’ve had a few failures in build, I’ll track one of them down and try and get some details. FWIW they weren’t too fond of the Hk417s either for accuracy issues.
I just bought a LWRC REPR and though I think the fit and finish is the best of any rifle I’ve owned, it’s been too cold in Idaho to get out and shoot yet so I can’t give you first hand experience with that.
yes, a friend got one new and it shot one round and jammed. The hot shell was stuck so hard in the chamber that we could not cycle the gun. had to ship it back to pof to have it fixed. It looks to be good quality build however. POF service is very good and hey took care of the problem.
IMO, I do not consider POF anywhere near the top of the heap. they are ok, but there are much better ar’s out there.