I’d just like to start off by saying thanks for your opinions on this topic in advance and also that this is my first post on a forum ever so please be gentle with me if i break any code of conduct that I’m not familiar with yet.
The discussion that we are having is regarding the purchase of a shotgun for his wife to use in their semi-remote property in Alaska. Where we differ is on the type of action, my brother would like to see her use a pump-action while it’s my opinion that a semi-auto would be a better choice for her to use. Our reasons are as follows: He thinks that a pump would be more reliable and easy for her to use under a high stress situation i.e. bear on the property or the unlikely intruder. His ideal situation would be her carrying the gun with an unloaded chamber and a full tube. My counter point is this, under duress a semi auto would be easier for her to use due to the lack of training on a pump it might be a problem for her to work the action and take aim at her target. As far as reliability issues are concerned we are talking about a shotgun what would likely see less the 1000 rounds in it’s entire life. 11-87’s or similar semi-autos could surely handle that without any issues. If anyone here can chime in and offer expert points of view to help us out that would be great. And don’t worry my brother is on this forum and will more then likely be posting on this thread his own counters. Thanks again for your assistance!!!
reliability and ease of use would go to a pump action. With a semi auto there is always the possibilty of it jamming through a FTE, FTF, or a double feed. unless you practive with that weapon on clearing, chambering and firing I would go with the pump action. It’s almost idiot proof and that what you want. You can pick up used LEO remington 870’s through a lot of police supply stores. I know one of my leo buddies down here was buying them for 175-225 this past year. He would break them down clean them and then duracoat them and sell them to his fellow officers for about 275.00
So with that being said I would get a pump 870. If you want to do anything to it, then look at an extended tube, and iron sites instead of a site bead on the barrel. come to think of it I think the leo 870 come with a post front site and raised rear site.
If you don’t like remington, you can carry this over to a mossberg or whatever other brand you prefer. The only reason I mention the 870 is they were plentiful about 6mos ago.
This thread stemmed from an ongoing conversation my brother and I have been having for the last week. I told him that the only third party opinion I would trust is m4carbine.net , and so here we are.
My choice for my wife is in fact a Remington 870, and my brother feels like the auto is a better choice. So thank you all for your opinions in advance, and please feel free to chime in with any and all suggestions.
I have two pump shotguns (an 870 and a FN) which I keep with chambered snap caps and a full magazine. I’m comfortable with them stored like this and all that is required is to rack the slide, no fumbling around for the slide release.
Ask the wife what she thinks. Her opinion is the most important. Have her handle, operate, and shoot both types, then decide what she wants.
Things to contemplate… Does she have any formal training in the use of a shotgun? Familiar with how to operate them, and clear stoppages? Other firearms familiarity? Is she at a size or strength extreme? Hand, arm, grip strength? Reach? Arm strength at full extension?
Consider the comparative maintenance issues between a pump and semi-auto in deep cold.
Without further info, I lean heavily toward a pump. There isn’t much that would steer me back to a semi. My first choice would be an 870P with a short LOP stock and long commercial forearm. Then, lots of training and ammo.
Not knowing enough about the wife…height, weight, etc…there are numerous youtubes with women using auto and falling on their butts from the recoil and the shotgun still blazing away because they didn’t take their finger off the trigger…just saying…
Something low recoil or there’s a good chance she won’t use it. That would not include a 12 ga pump or even a light 20. Also with a stock fit that works for her size. Beretta makes something specifically sized for women that might fit the bill in the 391 series.
But I think a reliable semi-auto rifle in a major caliber (.308) would be a better choice.
I lean towards the pump with what is known. They are pretty free of malfunctions as long as you use them firmly (no short stroking and such), simple to operate, takes large range of ammunition without greater risks of malfunction (will need slugs for bears in my opinion), lower maintenance, etc. A semi has it beat when it comes to just having to pull the trigger when everything else is going right, key there is everything going right which has a lot more going against it then a pump.
Course as mentioned your going to want to double check with the person in question. Might be something personally going on there that makes one choice needed over the other, even if that one choice is not the best option for most.
Just to help out I should let you guys know that there are no physical concerns with my wife running a shotgun. She has fired my 12 gauge a number of times. Also we are looking at the shotgun because where we live the bears get big enough to make a semiauto rifle obsolete.
Agreed. What does the wife think? Has she not had the chance to handle and operate both systems? Or is this simply a thread to quell a debate between two siblings?
The only reason I was suggesting a semi is for the fact she has no training and no experience outside of shooting for fun with my brother at the range. Pointlessly blasting is no substitute for intentional training with a weapon system. The only thing leading me to suggest a semi was the fact that she would be able to keep pulling the trigger and get rounds on her target with less things to think about.
The “keep pulling the trigger” theory works as long as the rifle continues to function, but it is far more likely that the rifle will malfunction if its a semi-auto rather then a pump.
Of course my wife isn’t “trained with a weapon system” thats just silly. regardless of which style shotgun we decide to go with she’ll have to train with it to become proficient.
So far it seems like the majority of people on this forum are leaning towards the pump action. Would anyone other then my brother like to put up a reasonable argument for a semi?
I’m not really as interested in winning an argument with my brother as I am in helping my wife make a good decision for this firearm purchase. I do really appreciate the input we’ve gotten so far.
Another suggestion might be outfitting an 870 with one of those recoil reducing, adjustable stocks (I know Blackhawk makes one but I haven’t used it). Reducing the recoil is going to help her with staying on target and you can also adjust the length of pull to her size.
This shotgun will probablly be a fast handling 18" barrel with 5-8 rds. not a heavy trap gun that will absorb recoil.
She will most likely be using this gun in an adrenaline filled state. If she does not have the training to quickly cycle a pump she could end up short shucking it or become distracted of her surroundings and trip and fall or what not.
For an untrained shooter having a semi that funtions reliably will help to reduce some felt recoil and take one more thing off of her plate should she have to use it. It favors her skill level.
Ultimatly, she should go out and try these different styles. To go down a rabit trail, how does she feel about a 10mm handgun?
Thanks for the post. Do you have an opinion on a particular semi-auto shotgun that would be considered very reliable? I don’t have any experience with them having only owned a Mossberg 500.
As far as the 10mm goes I know that it is a very good round for large animals, but most people in interior Alaska would not consider it effective enough against a grizzly bear. Our property is only a few miles from an area that has a very dense population of grizzlies. If we were only talking about black bears then I think the 10mm would be a great option for her.
A Benelli M4 with a comfortech stock is an amazing thing to behold. It is pricey but a great gun. I stuffed a mixed handful of 2 3/4" #8 and buck and 3" slugs in it at a car shoot. It ran wonderfully and never choked.
She could also check out the Mossberg 930 or 935 series.
These are the two I have had trigger time with. There are others out there such as Remington and Winchester.
I was going to suggest something like the G20 (15+1 of 10mm).
I’m going to go another way. Having grown up in Alaska I would recommend a short barrel, 16" lever gun in .45-70 like the Marlin 1895SBL with a red dot.
The lever gun is a great option as well, and honestly one I was considering. I have a friend who has one chambered in .44 magnum that he uses for a brush gun. The .45-70 would be a more effective round against a bear than a .44 in my opinion, but either one would do the trick.
I was hoping that this discussion would bring more clarity, but honestly it has only brought more confusion to the subject at this point. Well, I guess thats good.