Frankly I’m surprised the DI temps weren’t a lot higher after the 264 round stoppage.
264 round sequates to nine mags of ammo. That’s a decent sized load out.
Agree that this is more of a test to find out “where the system breaks” as opposed to an operationally realistic test. Also agree that a sample size of one makes this more of a conversational topic than a truly representative finding.
I’ll never be in a situation to where I need to break contact, or maintain high rates of sustained fire. Still from my perspective, it’s not so much that I’m “anti-piston” (or others for that matter), I just wonder why so many are in my same boat are so “pro-piston”. If you look at your operational requirements I think most posters on this forum (maybe that’s a bad assumption on my part) would be just as well served by a DI system. If you want a piston, go for it, I just think the DI system satisfies all the requirements for the bulk of the members here.
Very true. We all know full auto fire is very sexy and a hell of a lot of fun. But we all also know that it is hard to sustain, both from the heat generated by the piece, and the logistics of all the ammo required. So we all (grudgingly) agree that semi auto fire is the most tactically, if not practically, way to go. Not to mention full auto weapons are extremely difficult and expensive to run, for us civilians.
There seem to be two sides to this issue. Those that are pushing piston uppers seem to be saying that this is the answer to the DGI weapon’s problems. Those that a perfectly happy with DGI weapons are saying “what problems?” I guess I am falling somewhere right in the middle.
The realm of full auto fire, especially full mag dumps, is a rare and unique (but utterly fascinaiting) segment of our population as M-4 users. It may not be directly applicable to us right now, but it sure is interesting.
I appreciate your replies here. Always good to have a crew you can bounce info off and get some analysis.
Here is my thermographic video of a 6921 fired fast as I could for 30 rounds. The auto temp sensor on the camera showed the hottest part of the gun, around the gas block at mid 150’s. http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Xm8E-X5Wc
This is a video of a semi Ak, not as many rounds showed fired, but the gas piston is about the same temp here as the DI around the gas block at the corresponding number of rounds fired.
I did notice, although it is not shown on these videos that the heat around the piston gas block was significately higher with higher round counts. To me, the weak part in the DI system, if you wanted to call it that, would be the gas tube in high rate/volume of fire. I was not able to duplicate the F/A aspect of it, but it is neat to see how heat affects the different systems.
Like all integrity tests , this exercise puts the test subject through conditions it is unlikely to ever see in the “real world”
I have never understood the rationale for running a head to head integrity test but I am an engineer…I am not in marketing:)
I can tell you from experience that while integrity tests make you feel all warm and fuzzy about your “product” Mr. Murphy still manages to create “issues”
Focused simulations…as in testing the product to real world conditions tell you much more about the likely failure modes. Granted, that testing should be done to extreme real world conditions but I don’t think that was the case here
Short of clearing brush I cannot imagine any need for simply hosing that many rounds downrange. I would be surprised if the operator was in any condition to continue afterwards:D
Since we are on this topic, I am curious as to what you guys think about the interview with L. James Sullivan and his criticisms of the M16? I know that much has been kicked around here and other places about direct gas vs. piston, but I will say that when I fired the 416 I did indeed notice that the weapons seemed cooler and definitely much easier to clean.
I just wish that PoF would reduce their delivery arrival time so I could get a PoF416 and run through the ringer myself.
a POF P-415-16-P9SX-223 to me, the test says it all. After researching M4/AR15’s and the operating systems, reading soldiers complaints about them, the piston operated rifle made the most sence to me, if I had to stake my life on either system, the piston system would be my choice hands down. The issues with the M4 are real and I’m glad to see that the government is doing testing on piston operated guns and hope they are smart enough to do the upgrade. one of the reasons the AK-47 has the reliability rep it does is due to the piston operating system. ( I know I’m stating the obvious here ) Just my $5.56 worth
Dan
