Piston Short Barreled uppers?

General Firearms NFA
21

? What BS? LWRC was paid $10,488 by NSAC for three USMC IAR prototypes. It’s not BS and is info that is available online at NSAC’s website.

There was an SF team that bought uppers for all their men (12 upper receivers). I don’t know how the transaction was processed (they may have all chipped in out of their pockets or it could have been an IMPAC card purchase), but they did deploy with them and some of the uppers are on their 3rd trip to Iraq and/or Afghanistan. I interviewed two of these soldiers for an upcoming LWRC article in “Tactical Weapons” and they were very happy with their LWRC guns and both had “countless” rounds through them both on the square range and on the 2 way range. A very small sample size to be sure, but combat use non-the-less.

I’m sorry that you don’t like LWRC, the rifles, or the people that operate the company. You ought to come down to Lewisburg, WV on the 31st of August and try out some of their guns and meet some of the people that run the place. They are hosting a Pat Goodale class there and it should be a good time for all that attend. I will be a student at the class and I think if nothing else you might have fun.

As for it not being discussed on 10-8 or LF.net, I don’t know what to tell you. I, personally, am not a member at 10-8 and when a search is done on “LWRC” at my website you get 11 pages of hits so they are obviously being discussed. I don’t remember the specific incident that Basicload commented on, but I assure that the LWRC staff is welcome at LF.net to post about their products or their end users.

Best regards,
Stephen

22

Link please. I googled NSAC and keep getting Nevada State Athletic Commission. Thanks.

23

It hurts me to use your own forum against you, but:

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/1761022213?r=8851064213#8851064213

Originally posted by basicload:
Just because Steve Holland buys a couple dozen guns does not make them .mil issue.

5th SFG has had some wazoo guns for years. They take limited funds and buy a few that could be shared by ODAs that were rotating down range.

That model kind of got screwed post 9/11 when the whole group was rotating and not just a handfull of ODAs.

I have seen 7.62X39 colt ARs
I have seen USP compacts.
I have seen the MK-12 before it was even called the MK-12

That SFG has a reputaion of going out on their own.

almost NONE of what they do is supported by USSOCOM or USASOC.

SOmetimes they can get “higher” to drink the cool-aid and sometimes they cannot.

Thes initiaves are personality diven from within that Group.

Other FORCE MOD NCOs from toher groups are following the example of 5th, but since there is a SINGLE small arms combat developer for all of USELESSSOC, it can at times make his job even harder.

He is constantly having to do briefings explaining WTF the groups are doing.

Rant mode on: you see the fg vendors like to use these “trials” as an endorsement of their product. So a fg congressmen calls the commanding General’s phone wanting to know why everyone of his guys is not running insert product made by shady assed fuck stain lobbying gun company here.

The General has no fucking idea that somewhere in the world 22 wigets were purchased with unit funds for testing. SO he calls this poor fucking captain or Major and lights into his ass about why the congressman from Conn is humping his leg and offing pork money to fund the whole thing.

Now the captian has to call around to even figure out what fucking unit bought the things, not to mention that if the wigets in question have not been live fire safety certified by ARDEC (at the unit’s cost I might add) then they are illegal for use by US soldiers.

The whole gun testing thing is a fucking racket. Labs like ARDEC survive off of other unit’s budgets to pay their expenses.

Our 21E’s have not been deployable for over a year pending the outcome of the testing. This is a gun that has been in service with the US military since 1979 in small numbers, but not a single testing lab had any record of it ever undergoing a safety cert. RAnt Mode OFF.

So you can see that unit’s buying their own shit can run the full spectrum from “great idea” through “pain in the ass” to “down right against regulations”…

When I see contract bid and filled to meet the needs of a user group in the form of a requirements document that has been staffed and validated by that user’s Major Commmand. Then I think it will be safe to say that the miltary is currently using more than one piston system.

This prompted an immediate back pedal by Martin Custer “Mil-Programs LWRC” (I need his job :smiley: ) in the very same thread. Posted 28 April 2007 21:56

“Just to set the record straight we’ve not processed any DOD Contract purchases at this point.”

24

http://www.nationalsmallarmscenter.org/awards.php

25

Thanks for the link. We’re in agreement on this issue though. I am aware that LWRC has not had any guns purchased on DOD Contract.

Stephen

26

I have had active duty SF types buy guns from me to use in bad places. Does that mean that I hold a DoD contract? Nope.

The Military buys weapons from tons of different manufacturers for T&E and some even find their way into action. This of course does not mean a damn thing.

To the orig. poster, having talked with Vickers at length about SBR’s and piston systems, it is his belief that SBR’s (especially ones that have a can attached to them) should be piston driven. Even though I build and shoot SBR’s and they have all run fantastic, I believe that you are better off with a Piston driven system when talking SBR’s.
My problem with piston driven AR’s is that I have not seen any that look to be all that good for one reason or another (less the 416). They all seem to suffer from weight, reliability, manufacturing delays or a lack luster company backing them. None of this interests me in the least and is why I have stayed about 1.5miles away from any of these manufacturers.

I do believe however that hope is on the way. With the Magpul Masada and LMT’s gas piston MRP, we will soon have some other choices to examine.

C4

27

Knowing that M4Carbine is very selective in who it grants Industy professional status to I am sure your information is correct. Could you please explain what you mean by “effective out to 300m”? With the fragmentation range of this round in such a short barrel at 60-70 yards or so I am confused.

28

Knowing that M4Carbine is very selective in who it grants Industy professional status to I am sure your information is correct. Could you please explain what you mean by “effective out to 300m”? With the fragmentation range of this round in such a short barrel at 60-70 yards or so I am confused.

Having not seen fragmentation in ballistic jelly I couldn’t tell you much about that, but generally when bad guys who were 300m and less didn’t do to well after being shot by a round or two of the 77gr stuff. Now it could have been the extra velocity from the suppressors, the fact that the altitude was somewhere around 10,000 ft or simply shot placement, you guys can figure that out.

29

I think you kind of nailed it Will. If you can shoot (meaning putting your rounds where you want) fragmentation doesn’t matter.

I believe that are very own KevinB has taken a bad guy with a 10.5 and a M855 round well past the fragmentation range.

C4

30

IP’s on this forum are generally required to meet one of two reqs:

E-5/O-3 or above Special Forces
Weapon designer

After they meet one of these reqs, they are then voted on by the Mods/Staff.

So when one of them says that they did or have done XYZ, you can just about gurantee that they are not blowing smoke up your skirt.

C4

31

Grant that is what I meant without knowing who I was actually addressing, was not trying to insult anyone

32

No, I know you weren’t trying to insult anyone. I just wanted to make sure you knew that forum members were not just randomly selected for no real reason to be IP’s.

C4

33

That’s pretty much in line with most of the GS wounds that I’ve seen/dealt with. Shot placement is everything, it doesn’t matter what magic bullet you’re using, or what caliber.

There’s WAY too many people that preach “fragmentation/ballistics” on these boards (mostly on TOS). The discussion comes up the most in the “10.5-11.5” threads with a guy saying that a SBR will not kill anything past 50 yards because the bullet won’t fragment. I just roll my eyes everytime someone starts ranting about it.

Thanks for your service Will.

34

I’ve had good luck with this piston SBR. It’s an LWRC. Over 1K rounds thru it now, only had one malfunction. with light reloads. It runs suppressed just as well.

35

My LMT DI SBR runs great. I’d sit out the piston format wars for now and just get an LMT, Noveske or Colt and call it a day

36

The main issues that a DI SBR with a can encounters are greater wear on bolts and barrels as well as the gas sytem blowing out the lube it needs to keep running.

I think the better fix can be found using a KAC E-3 equipped SBR and lubing it with LT Machine Gunners Lube, that is if you are really looking to find a ‘better animal’.

What I do is just lube the crap out of the BCG and replace the standard parts before their service life is questionable. I know that it’s not as sexy as the other options, but it does work.

37

I’m with the 20th SFG and I use Pert Plus shampoo.

Pert Plus
The Choice of America’s Elite…

There’s my endorsement. :wink: