Piston Rifles?

AR/M4 AR Technical Discussion
1

I attended a Gun Show this past weekend and came across an LWRC rifle. From what the representative and website have to say the piston powered rifle sounds like a good idea. My question: are there any piston powered rifles that have proven themselves in combat? I hope I am asking the question the right way. I am trying to find out if people who really know rifles have given piston powered rifles a real work out and what they thought of the weapons. What if any are the pro and cons of a piston powered rifle? Is there any difference in the different piston powered rifles that would set one above another? Any input on this subject is appreciated. :confused:

2

These gas piston rifles did OK in combat:

M1 Garand
M14
FN/FAL
AK47 / AKM / AK74

Regarding the gas piston AR’s, at least one top instructor has noted reliability problems with them. Personally, I wouldn’t consider a piston AR unless I was building a sub-12" gun. The piston guns really seem to shine in that application.

3

I have two LWRCs, well one, the other arrives in the morning. Love mine. I have been trying to kill it and hasnt stopped once. I’ll mix ammo types up in a box, load mags, and dump em, tac loading, etc. Runs like a clock! Have a 8in PDW upper from LWRC coming to a friend’s house who already has his stamp. we’re going to go out to the range with it and do some testing asap. I’m behind them. Bolt carrier stays cool, bolt cleans with a paper towel, less muzzle rise. I’m not gonna sell off all my DI ARs, and I’m not going to sell my car and buy an HK or nothing, but I will buy more LWRC stuff. Can’t wait for their 308 Piston AR. I will have one. Grab a Masada asap, a new AK and be happy for a bit.

4

Do you have any input on more recently developed piston rifles?
The rifle I saw was a LRWC 10.5" rifle.
From what I understand, and that isnt much, is that a piston rifle chambered in 6.8 SPC would be a very good rifle for CQB. Opinions?

5

What length is your LWRC? Have you used your LWRC in bad weather? How has your LWRC run when dirty, like after being drop on the ground ? How hard have you run your LWRC besides using different ammo? I am interested in this rifle just dont want to waste my money.:smiley:

6

Nightfighter do a search on here Pat Rogers has made some comments on them and how they worked when pushed hard in his classes.

7

I think a piston gun is an awful lot of money to put into an AR-type rifle, especially for the uninitiated. From kinda follerin’ your posts, I’d say you’d still be happiest with a 16" direct impingement (those are the kind that DON’T use pistons) gun.

The problem with learning about ARs right now, is that there is a lot of “stuff” out there, that is chaff. Pistons aren’t necessarily better than DI, and the 5.56 isn’t that bad of a round.

Question for you: I see you’ve discovered the 6.8 SPC round. I think it’s kind of nifty, myself, but what do you know about reloading? Unless you want to chunk down .50 to $1 a round, I don’t think it’s a good round for anyone except for an experienced reloader.

And then, there are 6.8 SPC rounds out there that will be incompatible with whatever gun you choose. Do you know how to tell the difference?

Again, I understand your tentativeness on this subject, but a basic 16" carbine is what you really need, imho.

8

Well, some folks buy ARs to go to the range and shoot paper, and I do that with mine sometimes but I look at all my weapons as that, a weapon. Something to FIGHT with, so I run mine as so. I shoot alot of drills with mine. I get it very hot, and dirty. Mag changes, movement drills, in the rain, had dirt and sand on the piston, I have yet to hurt it. A lot of people didn’t like the idea of a new style of rifle when it first came out, bashed it, and said how much of a piece of junk it was, the M16. How’d that work out. I think the future of US fighting weapons will go 6.8mmSPC, and Piston, in the M16 platform. I’ve been hearing from folk who know {not who have friends who heard something} that 6.8mmSPC is about to go big. My next AR will be a piston 6.8mm. I think people need to get away from the idea that piston guns are around so you don’t have to clean or lube it as much. May or may not be true. The facts I like about them is that the bolt doesn’t get hot, so there are no drastic heating and cooling inside the weapon, less to no carbon in the action, less muzzle rise. The one LWRC I have is in 16in, the other is a 8in Personal Defense Weapon. The LWRC PDW 8in is usually in 6.8mm, mine is in 556. Not gonna be my first choice of fighting weapon, but should be fun. For a fighting weapon I’d go with a 16in.

But as asked, a 10.5 or 12in suppressed 6.8mm piston gun would be the ticket and one of my first choices for CQB. YMMV

9

Not to deter you or how to tell you how you should spend your money, but one of the things I realized a year or two ago when the POF and LWRC were getting a lot of press and internet hype was that you were getting essentially a rack grade weapon for a custom price. I’m sure that Piston AR’s run fine for their main purpose but you could get a very good DI AR plus a decent optics for the same price. If you were dead set on spending that much money though you could get a semi custom or custom AR for the same price or probably less.

When you think about that you would pay $2000 or so for a Piston AR and about $1000 for a LMT (or about $1200 for a Colt) then it’s not as good of a deal as it seems. Also if this is your first AR you need to think about getting extra magazines, ammo, a light if it’s a defense weapon, optics if that’s how you want to run it, and a training class wouldn’t be a bad idea as well. That can diminish the price difference quickly but you have a fully functioning weapon, accessories that will last your for a good while depending on your shooting habits, and good training that can possibly save your life.

It’s just an idea to throw out there but something to think about nonetheless.

10

Well, good thing that my issue M16s weren’t really for “fighting”.:rolleyes:

That’s probably the only reason they didn’t explode, ripping the space-time continuum, and ending all life as we know it.:wink:

And, obtw, the last time I talked with Army’s procurement people; not just the “guys in the know” that you have very special access to, there is no plan in place to go to 6.8mm SPC. But what do I know. I’m just a senior field grade, former combat arms, current logistics officer.

11

Thats gotta leave a mark :smiley:

12

The piston uppers are neat, but the price is what sucks. If the piston manufacturers could put out a standard piston upper that was about the same price as a DI upper, it would be a good deal, but I wouldn’t and won’t spend that kind of money for something that isn’t broken. I’d rather use the money for ammo and training.

On the 6.8SPC issue. I seriously doubt it will ever get adopted in any serious way by the Military other than what it is aleady used for. That is unfortunate because this round is a big step up over the 5.56. Unfortunately politics always gets in the way of things. If more LE agencies started adopting it, it would help it out tremendously since it is an ideal LE round.

13

I could only find one post. He mentioned ONE LWRC that was jamming in one of his classes I think.

Vickers seem to think it’s okay and I think maybe Paul Howe too I think…

Pushed hard =???

Like 500 rounds in 2-3 hours?

Just curious, because I just bought one and want to make sure it runs.

maybe I shoot my DI Stag too and compare how fouled their chambers get.

14

I suck at searching the net or forums. Should I search for piston rifles or for Pat Rogers?

Thanks for your input. I have actually talked to someone about building me a DI rifle, but I want to make sure I am getting the most for my money.

Thanks for your input to the question. It is nice to hear from someone who actually own and use one of the piston rifles. I dont konw if I have the money to buy one yet, but some time in the near future when I learn more about ARs in general and piston rifles in particular I will take the dive. I have to start at the bottom and work my way up in AR knowledge.

Thanks for taking the time to add those ideas to the forum. I some times get caught up int he hype of what I am learning and forget that the basics are the foundation and that is where I need to start. Any suggetions on what is a good, upgradeable in the future, DI AR for a new shooter?

Let me know what you think of your LWRC and how it functions over time. I would just like to know what someone who actually owns one thinks of the rifle.

15

I think the main advantage is that it’s easier to wipe down the carrier when you clean the rifle.

If that’s worth an extra thousand or so, then go for it.

16

Nightfighter-
Clicking the Search button - Upper Right portion of this page - and entering “piston” and “Pat Rogers” in the appropriate blocks yielded the following:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=4265&highlight=piston

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6257&highlight=piston

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6387&highlight=piston

… remove the " " before typing.
:slight_smile:

17

Here is a quote from Pat that pretty much sums it up.

18

Thanks for the hyperlinks. They have provided some interesting reading and information.

19

Yeah, I think I am going to get a good quality DI AR and go from there.

20

An XCR is not a LWRC upper and has little in common with it.

The only info applicable to the LWRC product is info on the LWRC product.