Recently in my area there has been a large increase of Ruger Pistol Caliber Carbines hitting the FFL’s as local departments switch over to AR’s. Looking at past armed conflicts one can see were pistol caliber carbines were used by most of the major powers from WWII until Vietnam and today many police departments still use the MP-5 or Car-9.
Now before everyone jumps in with its better to use a 5.56, 6.8, 7.62 for a gun fight I already totally agree 100% with that recommendation. My contention is that there must be a valid use for such pistol caliber carbines even if its only over that of a handgun with its enhanced accuracy and slightly longer effective range in todays world.
Looking at what my Ruger PC-9 carbine can do with +P or +P+ ammunition it appears with my set-up accurate hits to 150yds can be made with ease and with modern bonded bullets one would not have to worry about close impacts at the higher carbine velocities fragmenting the bullet and retarding penetration.
Now I don’t know what the engineered expansion window is for the bonded bullets in Doc’s recommended list is but I think it would be safe to say that the higher velocities from a 16" barrel would extend the range over a handgun that the bullet would expand some what, plus past that expansion window one still has a .355 caliber hole poker out to as far as one can hit.
Accuracy should be better over range when compared to a handgun so with all the pluses what is the negative side of pistol caliber carbines in 9mm, .40S&W or .45acp?
I had some Double Tap 357 Sig Gold Dot 115 grains that came out of a Storm Lake 5.19" ported barrel at a little over 1600fps. In my VERY INFORMAL milk jug water testing at about 20’, that load blew up the first 2 jugs, and dented/slightly cracked the back of the 4th. IMO, out of a 16" barrel a +P+ bonded 115grain 9mm would probably look something like that. This is of course just a guess based on remembering reading somewhere that someone was getting near that velocity from a carbine. From my limited experience the performance was closer to what I’ve seen 64grain Federal non bonded .223 do than what my standard pressure 9 115/124/125 grain does. Based on what I’ve seen in living tissue I think it could be possible that the temp stretch out of a 16" carbine with +P+ 115 or +P+ 124/125 9mm MIGHT come into play.
I realize this is very informal and extremely unscientific, but I thought I’d put it up in case one of the experts didn’t respond with real terminal testing.
I have a friend who is a trauma surgeon who has relayed that he has noted some stellate tearing in tissue on folks shot with hotter .357mag JHPs, 10mm, etc.
I also noted that he isn’t at all sure there was enough of an effect to add or contribute to incapacitation.
Anyway… I just bought a Kel Tec sub 2000 in the Glock 9mm magazine model. So far it feeds everything and has gone about 500 rounds without cleaning or any stoppages.
That this little gun is very easy to shoot well and folds into a book-bag if need be is rather cool IMHO.
I would rather gunfight with an M4 any day of the week over using a sub-gun or PCC, but I’d also much rather gunfight using a PCC than a pistol.
My thinking exactly, kind of a in between option for those who cant travel with a M-4 or folder AK due to their size/weight or local legal restrictions but want more then just a handgun. I also have a Kel-Tec 9mm Glock magazine carbine plus the little nylon case that it fits into and I use it for traveling & family vacations.
Some places you just can’t tote a battle rifle into and thats were a folding PPC comes into play. Now I’M not saying I would ever want to substitute a PPC over a battle rifle if I knew I was going into a gunfight but a folding well camouflaged PPC like the compact Kel-Tec which bends perfectly on your person while in its nylon case (Looks like a small Web-Book Case) or conceals with your normal luggage gives you a option over a handgun with the right bonded +P or +P+ ammunition.
One area I have to investigate is the federal law which allows active law enforcement to carry in any state, now I know we have to abide to what the local restrictions are in terms of magazine capacity and ammunition type for your pistol which is no big deal if you pre-plan your travel route out but I never did read anything if long guns like the M-4 are covered by the same Federal law? Just guessing but one maybe able to explain a PCC like the Kel-Tec which uses the same Glock Magazine and ammunition as your pistol easier then a M-4 in a Hostile state like New Jersey or New York.
If anyone has input about long longs and the federal carry law please chime in.
I’M thinking bonded, 124grs or so and a +P or +P+ rating may give one the best overall results from a 9mm PCC.
Maybe DocGKR can add if he has ever seen any data from Police use of a PCC as there were many smaller departments who issued the Ruger Police Carbine as a duty weapon for more then a decade.
Just to address some P/M’s I received,
I totally understand the limitation of a PCC compared to “regular” carbines/rifles (such as those in .223 and 7.62x39mm), pistol-caliber carbines suffer from a shorter effective range, more pronounced trajectory, less ability to pass thur barriers, and are less effective against body armor.
But I’M not talking about battle rifles but more of a PDW thats fills the gap between pistol and battle rifle for low risk travel or were battle rifles are prohibited and the need for something a bit more then a pistol is called for.
Other than for training on steel, the available choices don’t do much for me. Something that would get my attention is a Glock manufactured carbine in 10 mm that used Glock 20 magazines.
You and a half million other Glock Owners have been waiting years for a Glock built carbine, Glock once said a carbine was in the design phase but I guess that never panned out.
Flawed is a tough word to use as the Glock Pistol does not employ a manual safety and it is one of the most widely used Law Enforcement pistols ever. I would suggest that the same principles of handling a Glock pistol would pertain to a Glock carbine, keep you finger off the trigger until you intend to shoot. Solid, unfaltering safe gun handing is the greatest safety of all.
