I don’t think you’re in an argument or being attacked. Your impulse to protect and warn fellow members is good. I appreciate it. The only reason I bothered to reply to your question was you seemed to be genuinely unaware of how sellers can get rooked even with the gift option.
Sending people you don’t know money through the mail or PP always has a risk. My main point was that involving PP introduces a 3rd party who has the power to rule over the sale away from the site or other legal recourses.
Trust me, I’ve dealt with the Paypal ‘protection’ from both sides numerous sides and you would be better treating it as sending someone a money order because that’s basically what it is. Paypal only cares to protect themselves and thinking they’re looking out for your best interests will only get you into trouble. It’s best to err on the side of overly cautious because I’ve seen people get burned because they went through with a transaction that ‘just didn’t feel quite right’ because they thought Paypal had their back. So in this aspect they’re the 3rd party much in the same way the post office or 7-Eleven or whoever the money is drawn on is the 3rd party. Planning for anything more will get you burned.
You have no argument from me.
I wasn’t aware of the issues with using the “gift” method, and I appreciate the heads up.
I don’t use Paypal right now, but if I get a Paypal account I’ll be sure not to use the “gift” thingy…
The PO can’t take funds out of your checking account if the buyer calls them and says they sent you a fake XYZ. The PO would not act as an intermediary between two parties.
Gifts, like being discussed in this thread, are a little different but I would never use PP on principal.
Whenever I sell something on this or other sights I offer Amazon payments. There is never any fee so you don’t need a gift option. They don’t restrict what you can buy like paypal so there is no worry about having your account locked. They are not anti gun like paypal, I’m not saying they are pro gun second amendment supporters, but at least you can buy a Pmag off their website.
But for some reason people want to use paypal.
His point is that there is a seller in the EE demanding that payment be made ONLY via paypal gift…and that is a little “shady”.
Nothing further.
People can and do get burned with USPS money orders hell, its even possible to get burned with a FTF deal.
That is not the point of this thread. He’s basically telling everyone to stay the hell away from the guy in the EE who only sells via paypal gift.
Neither will Paypal, even if you don’t send it as a gift. Trust me, buy something from someone and then go to Paypal to dispute the transaction. Follow their template and check the box for ‘item significantly different from description’ and then watch as Paypal rushes to your side. Oh, wait… once you do that they will state specifically they don’t guarantee for buyer satisfaction for this reason. I’ve been doing this a LOOOONG time and I’ve seen FAR too many people get burned who thought they were ‘covered’ by Paypal to sit idly by and let people talk about all this supposed 3rd party protection. Remember: You will NEVER get burned by erring on the side of caution when it comes to online transactions. Your tips are suggesting people put faith in this very protection I’ve seen fail countless times which could get them in trouble which is why I am posting yet another rebuttal and instead asking people to do their due diligence to avoid getting burned because it’s ultimately the only way to prevent fraud.
With that, I’m done with this topic. I’m not going to continue to go back and forth posting stuff that I normally charge for only to have someone tell me I’m wrong. The information is there & members of this site and choose to use it or not. It’s not my hide on the line if you want to trust Paypal to have your back. Just don’t bother the mods of this site if it blows up in your face.
I have sold via PP gift due to it’s efficiency and there was no need for my buyers to worry. Obviously the process has it’s risk, but it isn’t something worth blindly damming the seller over.
I can’t believe this.
Shivan’s point: If a seller will ONLY accept payment as Paypal Gift, that should be a red flag
I have used paypal gift as well. Big deal, that is irrelavent to what is trying to be conveyed here.
[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Safetyhit;1166475]I’m sure that most who read your post appreciate the practical advice. Didn’t know myself that the gift option carried such a risk.
I’m not thinking that it “Does”, as much, but more like it “Can”. There is risk in anything, just some might carry more risk than others.
Use your own discretion, and, if wrong, learn from it.
I don’t think it was meant to be picked all apart, but, for those who want to, think/research some things, then make a more informed judgment.
Like I told my kids growing up, Please, just come to me first and lets discuss it, then you can make your decision, AND, after listening to me, I will back you in whatever your decision.
Good heads-up Ed. Good subsequent discussion.
Actually you’re not supposed to be able to. Magazines are supposed to be a NO NO on Amazon. Not that that stops anyone (I sold a bunch on there myself).
WRT Paypal in general:
If you feel you must use PP for anything, as a buyer, I would only use my Credit Card to fund the transaction. I would never keep a balance in my PP account, and I would never link it to my normal checking account – open a checking account specifically for paypal, keep it empty, and refuse your bank’s desire to cover it with overdraft protection.
If you are a buyer and use your credit card, you can always follow up with your credit card if you get screwed over. Paypal’s “policy” notwithstanding. I’ve done it at least twice when Paypal would not do anything or said I was too late. Paypal didn’t like it, but I still have the account…
As a seller using PP, if you don’t have any money in the checking account, they cannot take it out, and if you don’t have overdraft protection, they cannot put you in the negative. The worst that could happen is your bank charges you for “bouncing” a payment, and some banks and credit unions will waive that when you explain the situation (you did not authorize the withdrawal etc). And NEVER keep money if your Paypal account. That is just asking for trouble.
WRT to the original admonition. It is a wise one. You need to realize that a gift or other personal payment has no protection or recourse at all (assuming you don’t fund it with a credit card, which would still have fees if you did anyway so why bother), and if you are buying something prohibited by their dumb policies anyway, you probably are SOL if it goes wrong.
WRT to PMO (especially sent by US mail to the recipient). This is much safer than a gift option by Paypal. Besides the post office not coming back to take money back from you if the other party is not happy or scamming you, if you get scammed, you can report it to the postal inspector’s office. They may or may not investigate it, but if it is a large sum of money, or the offending party has multiple complaints, or if it is Tuesday or a full moon or any other conceivable reason, the postal inspectors office may or will investigate it. (Every complaint is not guaranteed to be investigated, but they do investigate a lot – they investigated a kid who ripped me off for $35 on eBay with pirated video games he sent through the mail and I got a call from the kid’s mom trying to make it right after the USPS Postal Inspectors got after him.) So it is much more “dangerous” for scammers to play their scams when it involves the “mails” and when the USPS is behind it.
Belmont already gave an example where they DID take the money back out of his mom’s account when the lady purchaser claimed the purse was a fake. And I have known several people who got ripped off that way – where PP took the money back from the seller based on the word of the buyer that the item was not as described.
I can vouch for this. I sold a guy a diamond ring and yanked the money out of my paypal account as soon as he paid. He submitted a not as described claim even before he received the diamond ring I sold him so I knew something wasn’t quite right. He submitted another not as described complaint after he received it and sure enough paypal tried to debit my bank account without my permission. I didn’t have enough funds in the account and the credit union didn’t cover something that large but I did get an NSF fee. I disputed that and got it back but paypal left my account negative on their end.
The buyer said he was sending the ring back but sent an empty box. We went round and round several times but basically it boiled down to my word against his. Seller protection is a joke that can be easily scammed.
I no longer use paypal for any reason. Even if I did, I would damn sure not use the gift option unless it was a person I knew.
It can happen but what I’m saying is that to count on it is going to get someone in trouble. For every person ‘someone knows’ there are probably 50 who were told to pound sound w/o recourse. I’m just trying to set expectations so that members of this site are better protected overall. Sure your seatbelt could save your life in a car crash but isn’t your best bet taking every possible step to avoid the car crash to begin with?
You guys are more focused on the ABS, airbags & seatbelts as if the car accident is unavoidable and I’m trying to prevent the car crash from ever happening. I’ve seen too many of these types of car crashes and the aftermath to allow people to paint a picture of safety from the airbags.
.
Besides all of the arguments listed, when it gets down to the nut cuttin’…
Using PayPal is supporting an extreme anti-gun and radically liberal corporation that is against most (if not all) of what we hold true.
But maybe it’s just me…
.
Another reason the GIFT option may be appealing to some of us who support firearms. It makes Paypal process transactions w/o making a penny on the transaction. Kind of like having your cake and eating it too.
We, as site staff/mods, can’t seem to win here.
That’s Internet forum moderation for you. No good deed goes unpunished.
I agree with SafetyHit, I did not realize it carried that risk and have seen a few “gift only” ads. Like he said though, I think most most appreciate your efforts.
NCR makes a lot of point of sale software and hardware. They are extremely leftist from the top, and support dims with large sums of cash.
Sometimes, you just can’t get around it, no matter how hard you try.