I just noticed we had someone selling on our EE with terms set as paypal gift only.
You all can choose to do whatever you like, but I would highly recommend against this option in paypal. If for any reason, the person leaves you hanging, paypal views this option as a trusted person to whom you gifted the money, with no strings attached.
In other words, you are going to be out your cash. Period.
Don’t do it. You’ve been warned.
If you read this, please bump it up with a response if you see it lingering down the front page.
The gift option is very much “use at your own risk.”
I’ve been lucky so far. Maybe those of us selling items should add in the % to the price so all parties are protected.
Not only that, they will investigate whether or not you are legitimately using the gift option. I know of a few guys here and on other gun forums who have had the PP accounts locked or suspended for using the gift option for selling items.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here as I don’t mind taking payments as standard so long as the person pays the fees associated. I also can say that I’ve had dozens if not hundreds of ‘gift’ transactions w/o a hiccup. I think, like any transaction you do online, it’s all about the person you’re dealing with. I give people the option and honestly don’t care if they send it one way or the other as the net to me will be the same. I just don’t like the theme of this post basically saying anyone and everyone who mentions ‘gift’ and ‘paypal’ is a scam artist trying to rip people off. Sure it’s possible but to realistically someone can be just as easily burned by a non-gift payment so don’t think you’re covered because you really aren’t if the ‘seller’ knows the ins and outs of how Paypal really works and has the desire to use that knowledge for evil. I won’t get into detail here but it’s caveat emptor whenever you buy something online regardless of if you pay via Paypal or some other method.
Edit: Your avatar reminds me that new episodes of Archer are coming soon and I can’t wait!
I have accepted gift on request as a means to save the buyer money. If they are using CC it charges them but no fee for bank funds.
I see no reason to prohibit it since the buyer should know they are sacrificing security for cost savings.
I don’t think the OP was talking about “RECEIVING”, gifted, but “PURCHASING” by gifting, with some one you don’t know. There are a LOT of “CON” games going on out there now, and as stated, you gave them the money, “No Strings Attached”. So they really don’t have to send you the product.
I get what your saying “Shivan”. And it’s damn good advice.
I thought people did that less because of the fees they avoid, but because PayPal’s acceptable use policy is fairly restrictive when it comes to firearms and accessories. I’ve never used it for this purpose.
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods (e) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (f) items that are considered obscene, (g) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (h) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.
I think, like any transaction you do online, it’s all about the person you’re dealing with. I give people the option and honestly don’t care if they send it one way or the other as the net to me will be the same.
A little different tenor than someone demanding that the only payment they will accept is paypal gift, don’t you think?
I just don’t like the theme of this post basically saying anyone and everyone who mentions ‘gift’ and ‘paypal’ is a scam artist trying to rip people off.
Caveat emptor = let the buyer beware. The “theme” of this post, which I don’t really care whether you like or not, is to remind people that they should be cautious. They should be even more cautious with people who disregard our simple EE rules AND demand that payment be made with an option that offers ZERO protection to the buyer.
Sure it’s possible but to realistically someone can be just as easily burned by a non-gift payment so don’t think you’re covered because you really aren’t if the ‘seller’ knows the ins and outs of how Paypal really works and has the desire to use that knowledge for evil. I won’t get into detail here but it’s caveat emptor whenever you buy something online regardless of if you pay via Paypal or some other method.
You think you disagree with me, then use the title phrase of the thread, and intimate exactly my point made in the initial post. I’m not sure you understood the role in which I am discussing this with our membership, or the very real potential that members of this site may have already interacted with someone who can not adhere to our rules and who was only willing to accept paypal gifts for payment.
Cool. Please explain the risk to you, as the reciever of funds?
I see no reason to prohibit it since the buyer should know they are sacrificing security for cost savings.
Please quote any phrase in which I suggested banning it’s use or acceptance?
It’s like mailing cash.
Exactly. I would, as staff, suggest against that as a business practice here as well. Though I have no role in what a buyer and seller agree on to complete a business transaction.
Please quote any phrase in which I suggested the receiver is taking a risk.
I apologize, I never said you were, I was just making a statement hoping we were not going down that road. Regardless, I am not sure how any claim with paypal would go since they prohibit all gun/ammo/etc purchases.
I was not disagreeing with you, I was just explaining why some people use the gift option. I certainly have never seen a seller ask for gift option only and I would be interested to hear why exactly they would demand it.
It was a question, not an implication. Please explain what risks a receiver of paypal “gift” is taking? If the answer is “none”, or “very little” then we’re on different pages. Since I know those are the answers, I was hoping that it would become self-evident that we are not really discussing accepting payments via “gift”.
I do agree that if a seller will ONLY accept funds via GIFT payment then the likelihood of a scammer could be increased. It could also be a seller that has been burned in the past accepting funds via teh regular method then had a buyer work the system as a ‘victimized buyer’ and get their money refunded leaving the seller out the item as well as the money. I’ve been using Paypal for a decade now and have quite literally thousands of transactions (I was an eBay Power Seller for many years going back to 1999 before they even had a name for it) to base my first-hand information on. I’ve even taught seminars on avoiding fraud to the average consumer as well as some LE agencies so I have a little experience on this when I say that caveat emptor applies to ALL online transactions and too often people assume they’re protected by Paypal or eBay or some other source but this isn’t always the case. Know your buyer, know your seller is the easiest way to avoid scams and due diligence should be made if you plan to buy online regardless of payment method because I can tell you without a doubt the regardless of the payment method or how much you think you’re ‘protected’ you are opening yourself to potential fraud whenever you deal online.
To summarize, I’m not saying you’re wrong in what you’re saying I’m more pointing out that to the average reader of your statements it can seem like you’re saying: ‘All gift payments are fraud’ and ‘All regular payments are good to go’ which can take buyers off guard. I’m more trying to remind people that there are decent people who take GIFT payments via Paypal and there are also VERY crooked people who con people daily using regular payments as well. The only universal answer to both of these is to know your buyer/seller which will be more difficult sometimes when dealing with people you know online but it’s your responsibility to apply due diligence to lessen the chance of being scammed.
I will never use PP again. They have way too much control over transactions.
USPS money orders are very cheap, and can be verified before cashing or depositing.
My mom used to run a little side business buying and selling purses like Coach and stuff like that. Just something to do while my dad was away. This lady paid her with PP and once she got the purse claimed it was a fake. It wasn’t but just on this ladies word snatched almost a thousand dollars out of my moms account. My mom disputed it, and eventually got the purse back but the woman made sure to ruin it before hand. Any time you deal with them you are putting dispute resolution in their hands, and the way they handle it is insane. Don’t put a 3rd party into the mix between a sell/buy for what is sometimes quite a bit of money.
It should also be noted that in terms of safety/security sending a money order or paying in cash in person both are most similar to a GIFT payment in terms of recourse yet people don’t bat an eyelash to send a money order for payment. At some point you’re taking a risk to send payment to someone you’ve never met. There are steps you can make to minimize this risk and if something just doesn’t feel right… walk. The amount of savings you are getting over buying retail from known & trusted sources becomes the justification for the risk of completing the transaction.
The risk you run as the receiver of funds (gift or otherwise) is that the transaction gets reversed. A lot of people don’t realize it, but Paypal treats its customers like they’re little businesses. If there’s a problem, Paypal doesn’t absorb the cost of a reversed transaction. Paypal is totally fine with sticking the seller.
It’s no different than if someone came to your business, bought whatever product or service you have for sale, and then contested the charge. You are out the product or value of the service until you win the fight over the chargeback. With a stolen card you lose. If the good wasn’t as advertised or claimed as never delivered and you don’t have a tracking number to prove it was, you can lose. As the receiver of a gift, the risk you run is the person who “gave” it claims the transaction was unauthorized which more or less plays out like the item was purchased with a stolen credit card.
Personally, I try to avoid using Paypal these days. If it’s gun related, I don’t want Paypal associated with it at all. The last thing I want is to sell someone something that they rule is prohibited by their anti-weapon policy so I’m out the funds, merchandise, and have a locked account.
Paypal can be useful but the idea of it providing “protection” is being generous. You can look it up online but their customer service is horrible and the number of complaints about them sticking customers is more than you can read in several lifetimes.
Do whatever you like, but when you lose out, please don’t write me a PM complaining about it and asking what M4C can do about it.
We, as site staff/mods, can’t seem to win here. We give what should universally be viewed as sound/conservative advice, and somehow we still get arguments.
If we don’t say anything, we have demands that we should be telling people about this sort of thing.
Seems like I should just worry about myself…(My dad probably told me that when I was younger.)
I can appreciate your post and understand the motivation behind it was positive and selfless. Thank you for taking the time to post it. Anyone who holds the site accountable for ANY sort of transaction between a buyer & a seller where M4Carbine.net is neither one is an idiot. Period. I just think a topic focused on the overall caveat emptor rather than Paypal/GIFT specifically would be a better PSA for M4Carbine.net. It’s just as easy to get burned using ANY payment method when dealing with a private party online transaction.
Buying & selling online is a “Danger Zoooooooone!”
