I’m currently working on my first build. It is going to play the role as a patrol rifle. My agency is not very picky as to which brand is used. I thought about just addressing the weak points on my Bushy but I figured its time to get a new one. Since I’m kinda new to building I figured I would ask for suggestions. Please guys list any part and brand that you think would benifit my cause. I’m open to any suggestions.
Take it from me, if you want to save money buy a BCM to begin with (in the configuration that you like the best). I’m running a BCM4 lower with a BCM upper (16" middie w/ Larue Tactical 12" handguards) and I couldn’t be happier. 
Thanks, that’s what I’ve been looking at for the past few days. Just going BCM all the way. I’m leaning to BCM Standard 14.5" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ Daniel Defense LITE 9" Handguard. I like having fixed irons on my rifle. I feel they are simple and one less part to flip up or get broken.
IMHO, you can’t go wrong with ANYTHING from BCM.
+1 BCM, my 16 in. middy has treated me well. I recently took an armorers class and all the components we were supposed to check( Gas keys, bolts, gas tubes, etc.) were assembled correctly and everything checked out great. The gun has shot flawlessly as well.
Okay so I pretty much have nailed down the upper and lower (BCM). Now for a muzzle brake, rear sight, light. Can’t use elec. optic per departmental standards. thinking bout LMT rear sight. Once again Im not a fan of lots of moving parts. As far as tac lights since I bought my SF years ago things have changed.
A2 flash hider, Larue BUIS, and a SF or SL tac light.
If I were to start over with a new patrol rifle, I would look really hard at a COMPLETE BCM mid-length with a TR-24 for an optic (unless you are looking to go the SBR route).
I would be careful with getting too custom with a duty gun for civil liability reasons. Remember, if you are involved in a shooting, you will be sued. Attorney’s will demonize the weapon used if they can.
Expample: “Officer, the .40 caliber Glock is your departments standard issue?” “Officer, why do you feel it necessary to carry a .45 caliber handgun with a single action trigger?” Obviously easily defended, but in a civil suit, it could have an effect on a jury.
That’s just my advice/opinion.
By no electrical optical sights, do you mean that they won’t allow optics at all? If non electrical ones are ok, maybe the 1.5X ACOG could work for you.
Otherwise, if you actually mean NO optics, then the LMT, Larue, or Daniel Defense fixed iron sights might be the way to go. The Larue and Daniel Defense sights also eliminate the elevation know, and the windage knobs are smaller or sit flush to the body. If you like “simpler is better”, this might be a good deal, unless you’re used to adjusting elevation with the rear sight.
I use a PWS FSC556 on my work gun. Guys on the team were skeptical, but after seeing how well it worked both for recoil control and flash suppression, they changed their tune.
Yea we cannot run any form of optic on our patrol rifles even though 80% of our jurisdiction is rural areas packed full of meth-cooking rednecks who carry more guns than a swat team, and the other is densly packed projects full of rooted in hurricane katrina 9th Ward New Orleans refugees. This is the reason I want a good rifle. i love my bushy but i retired her to a nice ranch rifle status. I was looking at the Surefire muzzle brakes and a few others.
And they most likely won’t be able to. A good judge and attorney can keep the trial on track, and only bring up the weapon’s components if they were suspected of causing or contributing to an unintentional death. More of an issue with bad sights, a trick trigger, or deactivated safeties, not lights, quality optics, and even compensators.
Other threads address this. As long as your modifications are within department policy, and the gun worked fine (i.e. the right person got shot, and no one else), this shouldn’t be an issue. You should also be represented in this case by your city, department, or union.
my $0.02
Totally understand you man, I’ve been lobbying for years to carry my Kimber but it aint happening. I don’t understand why a courtroom can’t see it as "A Bad guy got a Good thing. "
Lobby for the optics, my man. Its worth it, as I’m sure you already know.
Yep, i would love to have optics. I’ve tried the whole rapid aquistion factor that an optic has and got “When do you ever plan on using it.” Our head of training academy comes up with the rules. We have to carry a Glock but since he likes Sig Sauer he can swap. I’ve approached him numerous times about optics but I’m releaved that i can purchase my own rifle. We had a bunch of pre-issued mix matched a1 uppers (with triangle shaped handgaurds) that were produced 30 years ago. But after we argued they still issued them and when they went to qual with them only two out of 30 fired.
I would advise not to put a brake on a duty gun. If you’re the type to do entries with your carbine (and who doesn’t have to train for AS scenarios) you will more than piss off everyone on your team, you could cause some damage with it too. Put a good flashhider on it, and if it is a SBR, particularly a 10.3, you could go so far as a noveske flaming pig.
Also another one who votes muzzle brakes are a no-no in a patrol rifle. Muzzle breaks are designed to vent gasses sideways instead of straight out. Sideways could mean your team-mate standing beside you. If you absolutely dont want an A2 hider, go for a smith vortex.
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SOLID DUTY WEAPON
I respectfully disagree.
Take the tactical entry or active shooter scenario. Regardless of which muzzle device you’re using, it will still be loud and disorienting, and any of these flash hiders/compensators/suppressors/brakes can cause at least temporary hearing loss. The only way to cut down on the sound issue is to use:
-a suppressor(best, but still not perfect, and not a legal/policy option for a lot of people),
-hearing protection(not always available to put in before entry, plus comm issues),
-a compensator that puts more of the flash and sound forward, like the KX3(there goes your low light vision).
Once you get past the point that its gonna be loud any way you slice it, then the question is whether or not any of these devices can give you an advantage. That’s why I like the FSC. I find that it helps with follow up shots. I couldn’t care less about pissing people off; the ones that complain are the ones that are already complaining about being there in the first place.
You also have to look at where you’ll be operating. While we all think of making entries or aggressing on an active shooter, remember that you’ll more often be pulling the carbine out for high risk stops, perimeters, and open area searches, where the effects of these devices on the officers on your flanks are mitigated.
Then, in the case of active shooters and rapid deployment, consider your likely environments. Open floorplan buildings, like offices, schools, malls, and the like are common. Again, more open spaces will mitigate the effects of the muzzle blast, as far as how the sound and concussion carries down the line. In my environment, I’m limited to a 16 inch barrel by department policy. It doesn’t make entries into smaller spaces very easy, and in those cases, I’m more likely to go with my sidearm. Its also my SWAT gun, but I do very few entries as I’m tied to the perimeter/open air team and the sniper team.
If I had an SBR, it would be different. If this is for tactical entries, it’d be different.
The BCM system will serve you well. Get a good LED light system, good sling, iron sights and you should be good to go.
I do not particulary care for muzzle brakes on patrol rifles as the standard flash hider is sufficent. The rifle doesn’t have a lot of recoil and muzzle rise to start with so the increased noise and side blast, that will be blasting the people to your right and left, is not worth the gain in muzzle rise control.
STICKMAN is really good at math.