Parts Ain’t Parts

A frequent subject of discussion on this forum is “Parts are Parts.” Here is my experience building my second M4. Perhaps someone can learn from my mistakes. Please note that I am not writing this to bitch and moan, but to make you laugh at me. Enjoy. :stuck_out_tongue:

I had a very specific plan for the upper assembly: Noveske 16” SS PG 1/7 mid-length gas bbl (borrowing a term from Grant, I’m a “barrel snob”); LaRue Tactical (LT) Stealth Upper; Taper-pinned front sight tower (FST); mil-spec shot-peened MPI bolt carrier group (BCG). I called Grant first, but he didn’t have the barrel or upper in stock, so I found another well-known internet retailer (that shall be nameless; not G&R, ADCO, Bravo Comp) that represented that he had everything in stock. He offered to have his in-house gunsmith drill the barrel for the taper pins and assemble the upper since I didn’t have the necessary jig. The retailer specifically said he had everything, including the LT Stealth upper, in stock. I didn’t ask for prices, I didn’t ask for discounts, I just gave them the credit card info.

Three weeks went by with no response. When I called he admitted that he had sold his last LT upper to someone else after he had already billed me for it. This lie was the first clue. I should have canceled the order then. Stupid me. :rolleyes:

I called Mark LaRue, and confirmed when he would be shipping uppers again. Mark is good guy. :slight_smile:

Nine weeks later, the parts finally arrived. I assembled the rifle and sighted it in. Maybe 60 rounds. The FST was crooked, so I had to crank the rear LT BUIS all the way to the left to find black. Not good. :frowning:

The next weekend I took the gun and the wife to Northern Utah to spend time with family over the Thanksgiving holiday. Went shooting with sons and daughters-in-law in 18° weather. Failure to feed (FTF) every single time. I figured it was the cold. So much for showing off the new ratgun. :frowning:

After returning home to warmer weather, I cleaned it and oiled it with the lightest oil I had and tried again. Same problem, but less frequently. Switching lowers, and magazines (Pmag, Brownells, H&K and C Products,) made no difference at all.

I sent the upper back to the retailer, and asked him to fix the crooked FST and the FTF problem. He shipped it back to me without comment or explanation, and would not take my telephone calls. The FST was now properly oriented. I reassembled everything, but it still failed to feed too often. :frowning:

I swallowed a big helping of crow, and called Grant. Starting with the cheapest fix first, he suggested a lighter spring and buffer. I ordered the parts and tried again. No improvement. I tried different ammo. I even made some really hot handloads that ruined primer pockets. The hot loads produced some improvement, but not resolution.

I figured it was a gas problem, so I removed the FST and saw that the taper-pin holes were all wrong. This could only have resulted from the retailer’s short-bus gunsmith carelessly misaligning the taper pin jig, and then deceptively foisting the sloppy work onto me. The scumbag retailer had then tried to fix the FST misalignment by hitting it with a hammer, but the two pot metal taper pins simply crumbled. By using substandard (probably Chinese-made) taper pins instead of what he billed me for, he increased his profits a couple of dollars. :mad:

Next, I checked the size of the gas port. Exactly within tolerance. Noveske does good work. I then flared the gas hole in the FST in an attempt resolve the gas port alignment problem, and reassembled it using standard quality pins purchased from Brownells. No improvement.

Desperate by now, I pulled the gas tube and found that the flared end was abraded flat on one side. Strange. The gas key was lightly staked, and the cap screws were tight, but I noticed that gas was leaking from between the key and carrier. The underside of the key was warped and covered with deep mill marks. No surprise, the inside of the key was rough as a cob, and black as a lawyer’s heart (no chrome plating). That explained the chewed-up gas tube. I reattached the gas key to the carrier, but when I torqued the cap screws, one broke off. Even the cap screws were cheap Chinese crap. Hopeless. :mad:

I don’t know who manufactured the bolt, but it was not marked with “MP.” By now I had no faith in any of the parts I had originally purchased other than the Noveske Barrel and LT upper, so I ordered a new gas tube, BCG, and other replacement parts from Grant. Some improvement, but still, frequent FTF.

The pinned FST was essential to the philosophy behind this build, but I finally surrendered to the Laws of Thermodynamics and ordered a JP A2 adjustable-gas, clamp-on, stainless steel FST (an absolutely beautiful piece of work, BTW). The rifle works perfectly now, but only after I replaced every single one of the originally-purchased parts (except the barrel and LT upper). :frowning:

Now remember that I requested, was promised, and paid for, the highest-quality parts available from what is considered by many to be a reputable retailer. In fact, he used to have a banner on this forum. In your posts, some of you guys have mentioned buying stuff from him. Instead of getting what I ordered, and what I paid for, what I actually received was reject parts (except the barrel and upper) assembled by a dishonest incompetent. It took two years, and an extra $367 in parts and shipping, to get this gun working properly. Wasted time. Wasted money. Wasted ammo. :frowning:

Lessons learned:

  1. Parts ain’t parts: Ordering and even paying for quality parts doesn’t mean you get quality parts. Buy only from reputable people like Grant, Bravo C, ADCO, Brownells, etc.
  2. Good parts are hard to find: Procuring quality parts is difficult enough for people that do it professionally. It’s even more difficult for amateurs like me. One-stop shopping from someone like Grant or Brownells, or buying an assembled gun from Colt or LMT or other established manufacturer that deals exclusively in quality parts, and has a huge reputation to lose, is cheaper, and quicker.
  3. Appearances are deceiving: What appears to be a quality part, may actually be crap. The temptation to increase profits by using sub-standard parts and incompetent labor is too strong for some retailers. Caveat emptor.
  4. Every man to his trade: Don’t trust a retailer to do irreversible gunsmithing work. He might ask his half-whit brother-in-law on furlough from drug-rehab to do it for him. ADCO recently did some excellent gunsmithing for me.
  5. A silver Lining: Being forced to study the proper specifications and manufacturing techniques of nearly every component in the AR15 system was an education. :)
    

For what it’s worth. Pictures below. Note that I have since replaced the LT upper which I am using in an SPR build.

Keep You Powder Dry (KYPD)

Good post. I have seen similar issues with different parts from different manufacturers. Reputation is worth paying for.

So who was it?

+1. Please let us know so we won’t waste our money on crap. I can see a couple of builds in my near future - as soon as I return to the States.

Yeah, I would like to know who that was.

Ive had the same rotten luck with several suppliers and manufacturers.
I also agree that some of this crap is or has to be cheap china made junk and Im disgusted beyond belief with some of what Ive seen.I guess its part of the curse of buying a few thousand dollars worth of stuff in a very short period of time.
I started out buying from G&R and BCM early on in my shopping spree and later strayed to other suppliers when supply became limited…and I have paid for it in the end.Lesson learned for me.

Here is one of my rants from earlier:

"Other parts Ive had disgusting experience with from the corner cutting ham fisted blind monkeys recently are:
Buffer springs that take a huge set almost immediately.Falls below the -23 recommended minimum length.
Extractor springs that go flat and inserts made of plastic that turns to dust in short order,or are so hard they cause the extractor to bind until they turn to dust.
Gas rings that wear out in less than 500 rounds.
Undersized gas tubes(gas key end).
Soft gas keys with exceptionally rough bores.
YFS gas key screws that are brittle and undersized.
MIM extractors.
Cheap,thin charging handles.
FPRP that are oversized and will not fit in the BC.Have no idea what they fit but they dont belong in an AR.
Firing pins that are out of spec in diameter and in protrusion.
Cheap ars thin plastic handguards that defrom,creak,pop that if handled roughly the heat shields pop loose in.

I spent more money on return shipping of parts Ive ordered than what the parts were worth in the end.Needless to say I “aint buyin no more crap” from these folks.

I could go on but I see no use as Im preaching to the choir.
But it has got to the point with my upgrades for instance,that I call my remaining Armalite rifles/ upper assemblies LarMaliTes.
I guess Ive slowly become part of the “snobbery” here,because if its not BCM,LMT or Colt I aint buyin it anymore."

my names drew and i’m a high end-parts-aholic

Yes, please provide the retailer’s name? :eek:

SkiDevil

Yep, +4 or 5 (whatever we’re up to) inquiring minds and all that. :wink:

allow me to chunk another bitch in here, i’m tired of ordering multiple items from some of these jerks,getting charged $100-$150 for an item not received, their responce IF they get tired of me faxing copies of invoice, calling, e-mailing is the old “we are showing this as shipped”. got clipped again 2 weeks ago with trijicon shotgun sights. i have had excellent results from E-guns, grant, and bravo.[and AIM] these other bozos are off my list. i’m really glad i have enough weaponry that i’m about caught up, for awhile.

yep parts ain’t parts. and the sooner you learn to buy quality the first time the better off you are .:smiley:

learn also to buy from the right people[ as in people that has integrity]

I believe that I may know who this ‘retailer’ may be, but I would like to hear the name.:confused:

SkiDevil

Since you axe…

Denny’s Guns/Global Tactical. :eek:

somebody needs to hand-cuff you and me together,we have a lot in common.

Pray Tell. If you are referring to Denny’s/ Global Tactical Supply, Please share with us if it is not too painful/ taxing.

As a former customer, I would like to hear what happened?

SkiDevil:(

as i really enjoy this forum-- found out just how much i do fit from the replys about MJ, these are really my kind of guys— i’ll take my licks and just say i’m not ordering a lot from them flim-flammers…first time their fault–second----

Added to my ‘No Business’ list. Thanks! :cool:

That story sucks:mad:, but I believe it is all too common. Luckily, I havent been bitten yet.
This is my take ~ I have read enough on this site and TOS to understand that not everyone has a good handle on what they believe to be correct. I rarely visit TOS except to glance through the EE. Furthermore, I do believe that due to the quality of knowledge here vs ARFCOM, that I have become much more aware of what is good parts and where to get them. In other words, I have become somewhat of a “snob” also. I dont even buy anything locally except ammo. My go to list is short, and pretty much in stone :

** G&R Tactical
** Bravo Company
** Rainier
** LaRue

If one of these fine gents dont have it, I wait.

Are you a 5’6", black haired, green eyed, natural female beauty with a boat and motor? :smiley: