Part II - Two more Scout Light Substitutes

In an earlier thread, I described two weapon light options I found to be suitable replacements for the expensive and lower powered Surefire M300A Scout Light. I love the size and weight of the M300A on a Gear Sector Scout mount (3.9 ounces total), but don’t care for the price or the mediocre 110 lumen output. Below are two more combinations that I have found to come very close in weight and bulk, yet cost less, and produce more light.

Option #3

In order to keep my weapon light options small and nimble (like the M300A), I’m staying with my previous choice of using a single CR123A battery. Therefore, this first option started life as a 1xCR123A Surefire E1B flashlight body. Yes, just the flashlight body. Surefire parts are available from lots of dealers, and even on the used market. I found this E1B body on E-bay for $35. Any older Surefire E1E body would also be a good choice. The next thing I did was find a Surefire Z68 tail switch. I like this switch better (although more expensive) than the standard tail switch that comes with any E-series flashlight. The Z68 has a protective shroud around the switch to avoid accidental activation, and it also allows momentary operation by lightly pressing the switch. Like other Surefire parts, these switches are also readily available. I scored mine on E-bay for $30.

With over $60 into this light already, you might be thinking, “why not just buy a complete Surefire E1B and be done with it?” Some folks do just that. A complete E1B flashlight in a Gear Sector E-series mount makes a very small and compact weapon light package. Remember though that I want more horsepower, so instead of the Surefire option, I decided on the Malkoff VME head.

The Malkoff VME head screws directly onto any Surefire E-series light. The reason for this head is to allow the use of any Malkoff drop-in. For my specific setup however, Gene Malkoff created his M31 drop-in to run exclusively on lower voltage battery arraignments like a single CR123A. Using this combination with a Gear Sector E-series mount, this compact creation produces 230 lumens for around 45 minutes before the output drops to 150 lumens. This entire setup with mount weighs only 5.0 ounces.

I really like this setup so far. It has proven to be small, light, and powerful. It also does away with the multi-output selector switch that is used with the JetBeam RRT-0 that I reviewed in my first thread. I know some folks are adamant about the fact that weapon lights have only one output level to help keep things simple. I can see the advantages of this philosophy, and this setup certainly qualifies.

The M31 drop-in also utilizes a compression spring to make contact with the positive terminal of the battery, making it as recoil-proof as possible. If something does go wrong however, Gene’s American-made products come with an unconditional replacement guarantee.

I’m also very happy with the Gear Sector mount. Not only is it very light and simple, I love the way it hugs the side of my Daniel Defense rail. It does me no good to have a compact weapon light only to attach it way out in space. Unless of course I am trying to snag anything that comes too close! Clearly these Gear Sector mounts are designed to do just the opposite.







Option #4

This option is a departure from my previous three lights because it uses two CR123A batteries. The light is the Surefire X300, and I keep coming back to it because of its unusually small size and light weight. Stacking the two batteries side-by-side as this design does effectively cuts the length almost in half from all other 2XCR123A flashlights. And the X300 weighs only 3.8 ounces. That is lighter than a comparable 2xCR123A Surefire 6P or even the plastic Surefire G2.

And while some of you may be thinking the X300 is getting up there in price, an e-mail quote request to brightflashlights.com may change your mind.

I also like the very adaptable switch on the X300. Both momentary and constant activation are available via the rocking toggle switch. The most unique feature however is the fact that momentary activation can also be had by pushing forward on the toggle switch, just like I’d do to activate the tail switch of a standard flashlight design. This forward-push activation feature makes the X300 a natural for thumb activation when attached to a rail system.

What I never cared for with the X300 design (or any other brand) was the limitation of mounting it at only the four locations on my existing rail. The 12 o’clock position is definitely out for me because I run a fixed front sight base. I find the 9 o’clock (and 3 o’clock) position bothersome also because the shadow cast from my barrel is located directly in my peripheral vision. The shadow can be distracting because I can see the shadow bouncing around whenever I’m walking or moving the weapon.

The other thing I don’t like about the 9 o’clock position is that it puts the light a bit too low for a convenient touch with my thumb. I always use a vertical grip, but I also employ the thumb-break method. With this hold, I find my thumb likes to naturally ride higher on the rail. If I were to use an X300 as a rail-mounted weapon light, ideally I would want it at the 11 o’clock position (same position as my 1xCR123A lights).

I spoke to Jason Trusty of Gear Sector mounts about this dilemma, and as luck would have it, he was hearing stories of this same dilemma from other shooters. As such, he designed a few prototypes of a Gear Sector mount that helps to solve this problem. This mount is not available for sale, but if he can generate enough interest, he’s certainly willing to produce it. As you can see below, the mount is very small, and compact. It really, really hugs the side of my rail system, and weighs only 1.4 ounces. (add 3.8 ounces for the X300). I’m sure this mount would also work beautifully for a micro RDS, but I digress.



This mount is a natural when used with an X300 (or similar). I did my testing with my old X200, but the same rules apply. As I had hoped, it solved both of my problems. Because of the higher mounting position, the barrel shadow is now down toward the floor (out of sight), and my thumb can find the toggle switch very naturally.

Even though Jason did a great job with the minimizing this mount’s profile; the X300 physically can’t sit as closely against the rail as a traditional style flashlight. At this point, I do prefer the lower profile of my 1xCR123A lights, but I can’t dismiss the several advantages of this X300 setup. In addition to my comments above, having a 2xCR123A battery configuration does provide a much longer run time. I also like the fact that the X300 is conveniently removable if I ever wanted to run it on my pistol. I certainly can’t do that with any of my 1xCR123A options.

In case you didn’t know, the X300 was independently performance tested, and produced an honest 200 lumens, about 30 lumens higher than Surefire’s rating. This certainly confirms to me that the X300 has plenty of horsepower.





Conclusion

At the end of this two-part evaluation, I’m slightly favoring the Malkoff VME configuration The JetBeam RRT-0 is a very close second. What concerns me the most about the VME setup is the 45 minutes high-output run time. I was really hoping for at least an hour like the RRT-0. Gene’s solution to this problem is the creation of his M31L, which offers about double the run time of the M31, but at the expense of horsepower. The M31L emits only around 125 lumens. The X300 project may still also work for me, but I’m going to run with my 1xCR123A setups for a while longer before revisiting this option.

Summary of Specifications (Both thread discussions)

Surefire M300A Scout light
Battery: 1xCR123A
Weight with Gear Sector mount: 3.9 ounces
Output: 110 lumens
Runtime: 1.3 hours (total time before falling below 50 lumens)
Approximate Cost: $335 plus mount

Surefire 3P clone (w/Solarforce drop-in)
Battery: 1xCR123A
Weight with Gear Sector mount: 5.3 ounces
Output: >200 lumens
Runtime: 1.5 hours (total time before falling below 100 lumens)
Approximate Cost with Surefire components: $50 plus mount

JetBeam RRT-0 Rapid Response Tactical light (XP-G R5 version)
Battery: 1xCR123A
Weight with Gear Sector mount: 4.5 ounces
Output: 255 lumens
Runtime: 1.0 hour @ 255 lumens (or 3.0 hours @ 150 lumens)
Approximate Cost: $100 plus mount

Surefire E1B (w/VME head and Malkoff M31 drop-in)
Battery: 1xCR123A
Weight with Gear Sector mount: 4.8 ounces
Output: 230 lumens
Runtime: 45 minutes @ 230 lumens (total time before falling to 150 lumens)
Approximate Cost: $170 plus mount

Surefire X300
Battery: 2xCR123A
Weight with Gear Sector mount: 5.2 ounces
Output: 200 lumens
Runtime: 2.4 hours (total time before falling below 50 lumens)
Approximate Cost: $200 plus mount

First off, very well done sir! Very informative.

This mount is not available for sale, but if he can generate enough interest, he’s certainly willing to produce it.

A minor correction is in order here. This mount passed T&E and has entered production. It should be available in the next couple weeks.

I am definitely going to have to build a single cell VME now having seen yours.

:slight_smile:

Wow, two weeks after receiving your T&E sample, and I’m already obsolete! I’m glad to hear you’re moving forward with the manufacture of this mount. I think it is a great option for some folks.

I wish I was better with my camera, or I would post beam shots of that VME head. It is truly flawless. There is no hot spot, just a uniform blanket of bright white light. It is without a doubt a superior room-clearer. I think you’ll like it a lot!

Glock24, another great thread. Thanks very much for this info. Your posts define “Quality over quantity”, sir.

I’ve been debating a different light setup for my daughter’s LMT carbine. That Malkoff/Surefire combo looks very nice. I have one of Gene’s LED’s, and they are really worth the extra coin. I’m going to scrounge an E1 body, I already have the switch. The M31 is out of stock right now, but I’ll get on the waiting list.

Jason - thanks for the good news on the Surefire mount! Four of my carbine builds sport X300’s, and I’ll be buying several from you. :smiley:

You, Sir, are going to nickle and dime me to death with all these nifty lo-pro items you’re building.

Diabolical…

Nice, option #3 screams to be put on an MP7

Nice combinations, tagged for later.

That looks like a good set up. I came up with $166 for the light the way you built it ($65 for body w/tail cap and i added up the Malkoff prices from his site, although the drop in lamp says sold out).

Is that correct?

Yes, that sounds about right. Keep in mind you may be able to find the Surefire body cheaper, and/or use a less expensive tail switch.

You might also consider searching for the older Surefire E1E. I see them listed everywhere for around $80. Maybe there’re cheaper if look harder, buy used, or e-mail a SF dealer for a price. I know brightflashlights.com always makes me smile with their prices. With this E1E option you’ll get a complete flashlight, so you can keep the original bezel assembly as a back-up.

Gene’s drop-ins go in and out of stock all the time. He builds small batches at his plant in Idaho. You can either get on his e-mail notification list, or take a look at his M31W drop-in. He has several in stock right now. The difference is slightly less output in lumens, but a much whiter light instead of the bluish tint normally seen with LEDs.

Excellent write up!

The Surefire conversion sounds like the hot setup & low cost

Very good stuff! Smaller and especially slimmer is always better and I am happy to see so many companies now embracing it. I am waiting for rails with integrated lights or at least 1"/0.83" mounts. :slight_smile:

I am also running a VME head on an old SF E2E body and I like the longer runtime and more Malkoff options available with 2 cells. It would be nice to be shorter, but it still is just as slim.

Oh yeah, I also have owned and trained with SF M900’s, Millennium and Scout lights and they are all inferior to the new slimmer setups regardless of cost especially when using a thumbbreak hold. Determine what you are trying to accomplish, consider what it would take to do that, look at the components available, and do something, anything, that works for YOU. If you are the kind of person who is just happy with whatever the nicest packaging/marketing is then have at it and be happy, just don’t be surprised when people who actually think things through and truly try things out might disagree with your choice.

Thanks for the detailed write-up!

Dennis.

glock24

http://tnvc.com/items/illumination_tools/tnvc_tx4_conversion_head.html

I was wondering if you had seen this offering. They are listed as a sponsor on m4carbine.net.

It can utilize many different surefire light host for easy mounting options.

Jason

I’ve been eyeing that for awhile, but I don’t really use my M900 anymore and I am more tempted by newer lights that have multiple levels… I am sure I will get one someday for my M900, M3, etc…

Dennis.

I did consider Vic’s options while researching my project. The TX-4 head just doesn’t seem to be optimized for my 1xCR123A power supply, and the price seems a bit steep to me for what I’d get.

If I had a 9 or 12 volt system, I would be taking a harder look at them.

Great review!

I am giving the Surefire “E” series/Malkoff combo a try.

The Gear Sector mount is great!

Now I just need to wait until the M31 or M31L heads are available.

Well played sir, well played!

I really apperciate your write up (Mods please combine both threads and make a STICKY) as I am like minded. I have been pondering my own “poor man’s” Scout light for several years now. You have made me think in some new directions.

I have one question for you regarding converting a standard light to a weapons capable light, what all is involved? I am currently toying with a Gen1 SF 6P LED I got from the LA Police Gear SF Clearance, a Z32 isolated shock bezel, and a Z58/Z59 tail cap.

I recentlty scored a SF E1L for almost half off and may toy with that a bit to see what I can come up with.

Thanks MK. I’m happy to hear others can see benefit from my tinkering.

You are well on your way with your SF 6P LED. In fact, in my opinion your SF 6P is good to go as-is if you like the output level of the SF P60L lamp.

One note of caution however with that Z32 bezel. That style bezel is actually made to protect incandescent bulbs which aren’t as shock-resistant as LEDs. As such, the Z32 has a thick ring of closed-cell foam in the head to help absorb bumps and recoil. Unfortunately that same closed-cell foam is also a huge insulator, and will trap the tremendous heat being generated from high-output LEDs. This leads to shorter LED life and possibly lower output if the LED starts to overheat. Surefire does not recommend the use of these bezels with LEDs. The standard Z44 bezel that came with your 6P is just fine for any LED, and the Z58/59 switch is a nice upgrade.

If you want to upgrade to another drop-in LED, the SF 6P allows tons of options. The only thing I would recommend is ensuring that any other drop-in you choose has a compression spring at the battery contact. This will ensure the batteries don’t slam into the LED electronics during recoil.

The Malkoff M60/61 series drop-ins are very popular with this crowd; high-quality and high-output. Like I said though, there are a ton of P-60 sized drop-ins that will fit your SF 6P. Here is a fairly comprehensive list to get you started.

Thank you for your response, I didn’t realize that the Z32 bezels are not intended for LED lights. Good to know as I have not purchased the bezel yet, just toying with the idea. So the SF LED lights as is are good to go on a weapon? I will more than likely swap out the lamp as I would prefer 200 lumens over the 120 my light already produces.

Yes sir. The SF 6P LED features a dual-spring battery retention system, which is the biggest hurdle in finding a weapons-grade LED light.

Great, I appreciate your insight on the matter!