https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUBcewtUBpQ
C4
Yup, this mirrors what I have seen from students running Mros at several training classes I have attended. Save your money and buy an aimpoint.
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I have not done this test with the MRO, but with the RMR (same optic, just smaller). I have seen 4-5" group shifts with it.
C4
One of the classes this was most evident in was gunfighter mod 2 with Jared Reston. We had a FL cop in the class with his patrol rifle with a mro and was shooting basketball sized groups at 50 yds while working the vtac on the ground simulating a cruiser. Jared pointed out that the mro had much more parallax than the aimpoints. I let him run my t2 off my back up carbine for the class and his groups shrunk to fist sized groups. He sold the mro and is running a t2 now.
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I wonder if this was with one of the Gen 2 MROs or a Gen 1.
Would like to have seen the test done with one rifle that drives tacks shooting tack driving ammunition shot off of a machine rest buy a competent shooter. Judging by the first string from both rifles groups were all over the place. Not saying the results would or would not be the same but the results implied by the video are at best irrelevant.
A couple of things about the video:
- He admits the two rifles aren’t 100% equal and that may be introducing error into the mix.
- He seems to admit at one point that for the MRO he had to crane his head a little more left and right due to its larger window. Had he only craned his head in a manner equal to the M5’s window size, would that have shrunk the MRO’s groups?
In general:
- I’ve always, always, ALWAYS thought of an RDS as a “short-range optic”, i.e. CQB up to 50 yards.
- It seems common sense to me that if the dot is not more-or-less centered it will introduce error into the POI. I always thought this was one big reason to co-witness with iron sights: you want to make sure the dot is always as centered as possible even in odd shooting positions. Absent a good co-witness, I’ve always thought “seek ye the front sight post” when aiming the RDS precisely so you WON’T be bitten by the parallax.
- Further, even though I personally hate a full co-witness with both front and rear iron sights, I always try to “find the front sight” because shooting with an RDS and no iron sight reference at all seems to me to be like shooting irons with only the front sight. You’re not “aligning” anything. And I know people will argue that with an RDS you’re supposed to have the luxury of the dot being on target no matter where the dot is in the window, but I’m not sure I ever believed that.
Given some optics do have more parallax than others but it’s always been my humble opinion that’s why you need some training on technique to keep the parallax from affecting your POI.
And the farther away a target is, the more time you have to properly set up your shooting/head position. We’ll sling shots out to 500 yards every so often with RDS. You have to do your hold over, hold for wind, and keep your Dot centered up nicely.
And that’s why I think either: Co-witness at least with the front sight, or, realize that at more than 100 or so yards you need an LPVO or an ACOG.
In the video, I didn’t like either group at 100 yards.
Except that you’re not supposed to. RDS is meant to be used independently, without aligning anything.
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That’s the bottom line: I think that’s a myth that has been foisted on the RDS buyer from the beginning and it never was true. I’ll grant you in the video the M5 had less than the MRO, but with the errors that even the guy in the video admits could be the case I think both optics would have been better employed with an attempt to keep the dot centered. Sorry, it’s just common sense to me to try to keep the dot centered (as much as possible), and the RDS is more forgiving than irons as long as you’re doing your part to keep it centered. In other words, yes, you should be able to get good groups with an RDS without the precision alignment of iron sights, but you can’t flaunt that capability by having the dot all the way to the edge of the lens, either.
Maybe you don’t get the perfect cheek weld every time and the RDS is supposed to be forgiving of that, but it just seems like shooting with the dot all the way to the edge of the lens is pushing the capability of the optic.
The guy from Green Eye Tactical actually referred to referencing the front sight in this thread, but decided it wasn’t enough.
Referencing the aiming dot to the front sight post mitigated the POI shift to some extent, but it never eliminated it.
Much as I hate co-witnessing I’m thinking it’s still a good “fix”.