If you mean the test I think you are, I noticed no difference in durability as they all held together. Also only 2006 models were tested. For 2008 AAC has 100% heat-treated Inconel 718 baffles (all baffles) and end cap. Also the BLACKOUT flash suppressor is more durable than the 2007 Phantom design (I have been able to devise a test which is brutal enough to crack a Phantom). All cans have POI shift but AAC wire EDMs the bore to have as little as possible. The AAC 2008 design is 36 dB sound reduction!
OK, so you have peaked my interest (and I probably think many others as well)…what did this test consist of?
And since both suppressors held up…do you know what the determining factors regarding the final choice were?
To be honest, I am not super set on dB ratings (I have read your tests and understand the variables and difficulties in testing) but have you by chance tested the dB rating of these two side by side???
Thanks
I have not tested a Surefire 5.56mm can next to a 2008 AAC. I will though.
Surefire had the formula for what some of these groups were looking for. They wanted a lightweight durable can and sound was not too important. Around that time AAC was more into sound reduction but has come around to this military set of goals and managed to do it and still have the best sound reduction.
Come to the September 2008 Silencer Shoot and you can try all the AAC cans. Also all makers are welcome to come and give demos.
Thanks for the info, very insightful and interesting to see how the market and the military can change and potentially improve markets! It is nice to see companies willing to find solutions to challenges by the end users and not be so proud that they just stick to their existing product and name as requirements and usages change.
I will watch for your side by side sound test! I do appreciate the information you have provided in this discussion and also the professional manner in which you promoted your product.
Thanks again, and I would love to get down south for the Silencer Shoot…
I know the date is close (my dealer doesn’t have any yet)…but have the 08 M4 2000 models started shipping?
I would second Rob S on his comments; the Surefire users put lack of zero shift as a priority and are generally willing to overlook the difficulty of taking it off due to fouling - AAC users and other love the attachment device but tend to put less priority on minimal zero shift
My advice would be to evaluate what you are using the can for and decide from there - from my perspective lack of zero shift is #1 over everything if you want to use the can only when needed and cannot/will not tolerate POI/POA impact shift
Good luck
LAV
Larry-
Good point. I don’t think one second faster when attaching or 1db quieter matters much when you have an enemy downrange. He won’t hear the shot either way but he will hear the same sonic crack so any 1 or 2 db difference is not important.
Being able to sight the same POA everytime is a nice touch. You will save that time from mounting your can when it comes time to move your sight picture over 5 inches and up 4 at 100yds. Each and every time you pull the trigger.
I’m looking forward to (eventually) getting a 2008 spec can and a 10.5" upper to stick it on to test POI shift on the new ones.
All cans have shift on average (on a large sample of rifles). Some might have no shift on a specific rifle. If you trim 1/4 off a barrel, a can which had no shift might now have two MOA shift as barrel harmonics play a key roll. It is not a fact in evidence that Surefire has less POI shift than AAC. Please, test at least five of each on a specific rifle before ‘knowing’ which has less shift or check out the results of such a test. Many have been done, and AAC has won more than one.
I wasn’t saying I “know” anything, only that the perception appears to be as I described.
Robert, you know I don’t “dislike” you anymore but that is exactly what most of your tests involve- trying one sample that either works or goes tits up and you let it speak for the whole line, really…
Actually, it’s what all of your tests in the past have been. I’m hoping you’ve changed your ways.
I’m sure Surefire picked a few nice ones for their promo videos but look at them- they don’t move or shift. If you can cherry pick a few that are like that, then chances are most will be close. Since you’ve never shown us a test where you have zero POI shift, we can’t even assume any of AAC’s can be cherry picked for that results.
Just trying to be fair and objective.
I have seen a very large sample of Surefire cans (over 30 in fact) and the lack of zero shift is very consistant
On the occasional one that does shift it is often due to the flash suppressor threads not being in alignment with the bore - no biggy on an FH but a big deal on a suppressor interface adaptor - this can most often be verified by putting the can on a different weapon with a different adaptor and see what the results are; if you still have a shift then it is the can- if not then it is either the adaptor or the FH threads - pretty simple actually
The general rule with the Surefire cans are you will get little to no zero shift with the full size 556 can and very little with the 556K can - my own tests on my weapons are right in line with this
This is not to say that every other can on the market is crap - just that from my experience and those who I have networked with the Surefire claim of little to no zero shift on the majority of weapons is valid and not marketing hype
I have not tested every 5.56 can on the market and I do not get all spun up in suppressor drama but until I see otherwise (which can happen - things change and get better all the time) I will continue to use and recommend the Surefire suppressors - enough said
Cheers
LAV
I agree that one sample point is not useful. When I mentioned tests for POI shift, I did not mean my tests. I meant competitive trials.
What was the original story on SF cans? Didn’t they originally have no intention of civilian sales? It’s been a while since the topic was discussed, but I thought I remembered reading that SF had a change of heart on Civy sales when it became a financial consideration, and they needed the civilian market.
I’m not 100% sure of this, but it sticks in my mind, and has always been a turn off to me.
No, although I could see where the story might get interpreted this way. Not sure why it matters either way but…
Surefire is based in California and had the same problem Ops did; the state wouldn’t let them sell to non-LE civilians or private sale to LE for that matter. Something happened to change this (someone sued the state, the state changed the rules, whatever) and now we can get Ops and Surefire cans.
Surefire always wanted to do civilian sales but California law prohibited suppressors manufactured in CA from being sold to civilians either in or out of state. Surefire challenged this with CA DAJ and CA DOJ gave in since they have no authority to interfere with interstate commerce.
My experience with various Surefire 5.56mm suppressors, tested on different Colt M4 platforms, has shown less than 1MOA of POI shift except for 1 gun that was at 1.5MOA shift. At least a half dozen others have had between zero and 1 MOA shift.
When I inquired about getting one when they were first starting out, I was given this EXACT response “We only sell to LE or Military Which one are you?”
Extreme thread necro, but still pertinent.
Is this an issue with current Surefire cans, the 212a adapter not working well? What exact issue, if any, exists?
With the new locking system, I cannot say as I don’t have any experience with them.
C4
What was the original issue. I have a 212a and am waiting on my can, has new locking ring. From what I understand, the can locks onto itself, instead of the teeth on the mount.
The reason I ask, is that I have not heard of the 212a being a problem before, and asked the question when someone on another forum opined that that MB may lock up differently. However, if you have seen a problem, you have seen it, and I trust that it existed. What was the issue?
FWIW, this is what Surefire’s forum rep told me on another forum:
Question:
I have the new FA556-212 suppressor (new lock ring), and have heard the muzzle-brake offers a more secure platform to mount the old -212 on. Is this just hear-say, or is one mount going to lock up better?
Response:
No the MB do not offer a better lock up. They are both the same. 3 bearing surfaces. The 215A is a shimless design thus the teeth have to go 360 degrees but we offer a shim kit with it so you can time where you want the tines to line up. the 212A does have to be timed as does use come with special chamfered washer to account for the radius that is common on a lot of threads that lead to the barrel shoulder. We want the back of the adapter perfectly flat to the shoulder and that washer does that if the rifle shoulder is not cut flat like a SCAR.
Now if the adapter has to be pinned we have the MB556K-PN that is pre drilled for you to set a pin in. Just time it and use the hole as a guide for the drill bit. If you want a FH use the 212A and drill the hole on the back collar. We don’t want you to drill and pin anywhere else because it will be in a bearing surface and could cause issues with the suppressor alignment. We are coming out with a 212A-PN (pinned) but it could be some time.