Overt vs Covert Gear in a SHTF Situation

Preparation, Preparedness & Prevention Disaster Preparation & Planning
1

There are many different ideas about weather o person should use Overt or Covert gear in a SHTF situation. I figure that I would get a discussion started on it.

Here are the guidelines:

  • Describe your situation (real or hypothetical)

  • Group or individual

  • General use or bug out/ traveling

  • Weapon systems carried and why?

  • Amount of Ammo carried on you and why?

  • If you plan to use both Overt and Covert then when and why for each?

I hope that everyone can share info and some rational as why you go whit that. I will be post my response later.

2

See my responses in the quote below

3

This should be an interesting conversation. I look forward to it.

I have the belief that as situationally aware as I try to be about current political and socioeconomic circumstances I still won’t see the S coming that will HTF enough to stay home, open the safe, and start piling up sandbags. I believe that it will happen inconveniently when I’m at the hospital doing my everyday thing, separating me from my wife and 3 young children; not to mention that one of them is now in public school. My place of work is only 5-6 miles from home but there is a decent amount of humanity packed in between A and B.

My hypothetical scenario #1 is an earthquake. “They” say we are long overdue and that given the known fault lines and the manner of structural construction of a large portion of the metro area it will be devastating on a grand, isolating scale. In this situation my professional role will make leaving work hard to do as casualties start showing up. I have a real gut check decision point coming if this plays out. Hopefully, I can have immediate contact and situation report from my wife on the safety of the home structurally, the retrieval of our kindergartner, and the behavior of the neighborhood. Depending on the answers to all of these things I can decide if I’m headed home or staying and helping with the impending chaos.

If I decide I have to go home: I’ll drive as far as I can since I’m safer in my truck than on the sidewalk. If I get to a point where I need to walk I’ll ditch the truck and do so, its just a vehicle. I always have a weapon on me, unfortunately I call it my toy gun, my LCP .380. I hate it but I can conceal it while doing what I do and I must conceal it deep in the professional environment I’m in. I’ve considered the single stack 9’s out there and haven’t felt like they are a feasible option even. It sucks but that’s what I can do. Going covert is my only option given my lack of real firepower. I should get another mag at least to stash in the truck or bag but I haven’t. So, I’ll be stuck walking home with just that–a Ruger LCP with 7 rounds in it. Some days I have taken my real EDC pistol (XD .40 subcompact) and left it in the truck with a spare mag just for this reason but practice on this is inconsistent at best. Covert is my best hope to avoid contact.

Once home I believe I’ll be more covert than overt in the day to day work of keeping things going at home. Casual clothes with EDC pistol OWB, instead of my daily IWB, plus 2 mags concealed under shirt/jacket. Work will have to be done most likely. This is of course on the assumption that the neighborhood will remain mostly calm and safe while they just try to gather their senses and dig out a bit. I suspect a few days into things is when the air might start to feel a little more tense. I do believe that I will have a sense for this inevitable graduated ratcheting up of threat levels. I expect I will transition from covert to overt in a like mannered way. Start by having the rifle (BCM 16.1" M4 carbine with low power variable currently–I hope to switch it out for an Aimpoint micro this spring) near me, to having on the war belt with extra mags, to putting on the full kit/armor with a drop leg (Beretta 96 with D spring and trijicon nightsights). If I am hearing of trouble and looting or whatever jack assery I do think I’d rather be a hard target, but I want to avoid it as long as possible because being a hard target still marks you as a target. Avoiding “contact” is by far my preference.

I’m mostly planning on bugging in. My city is geographically isolated with only really 2 freeways in/out. I don’t believe I could drive out in this situation as the freeways/bridges might be structurally impassable or definitely traffic jammed beyond belief for 50 miles in all 3 viable directions. The 4th direction is really worthless given what’s out there geographically speaking. Plus, I’m in the dead center of the main city with sprawling suburbia up and down these arteries. In normal times my hometown where my parents are is only a 3 hour drive but I think until the whole scenario really settles in is all but unreachable. That would be a better destination but not safe to try and do. Our home is supplied for getting through this scenario from a food, water, heat standpoint so I would have to do my best to stick it out in the Alamo. Again, avoiding the conflict/confrontations/fights will be paramount to getting through a 30-60 day earthquake clean up and infrastructure rebuild.

I hope that things stay safe around the house so that I can work, helping the system handle the overload that these sorts of situations cause and relieve some of the suffering that will be inevitable in the populace.

If the hypothetical scenario is of race riot/socioeconomic/terrorist nature then I’m more likely to become overt immediately with the whole kit and kaboodle. Looters and rioters are mostly cowards without skills only hitting targets of opportunity. I want to discourage them from operating in my neighborhood. If my appearance doesn’t then I want 30 round mags to deal with a large crowd…God help us all in that case, it makes me shudder to consider it–I’m willing and able but not excited. Getting home from work in this scenario is a much more treacherous movement and with only my LCP will suck at best. I guess I should make stashing a real pistol in the vehicle a regular practice for this reason but that has its own debatable merits and risks.

4

Interesting topic and one that I’ve been thinking about alot lately and have been working on my kit to cover my “threat matrix”. I’ll be brief, but basically the situation will dictate how I am kitted out.

Two situations come to mind:
A “SHTF” situation that happens with no warning, where all I have is what I carry for EDC (handgun and a few mags) VS. a situation that I can prepare for and kit up accordingly. If it’s the former, then it’s likely that it happened while I was out and about and all I would have is the above along with a pack containing med kit and extra stuff. If I can’t drive home, I would stock up on as much water and food as I could carry and get moving.

If it’s the latter, where I can assess the situation, then I would kit up in a few different ways. I’ll call these EDC+, Covert, and Overt.

EDC+ would look like:
Soft body armor
Handgun in OWB pancake style holster
1-2 handgun mags
Fixed blade knife
Handheld flashlight
Med kit in pockets
(all under cover garment such as pearl snap / button down shirt)

Covert would look like:
Soft body armor with thin steel plate up front
Handgun in OWB WML holster (pancake concealment type)
2 handgun mags
1 rifle mag
Fixed blade knife
Handheld flashlight (maybe)
Med kit in pockets
(all under cover garment such as pearl snap / button down shirt)

  • Rifle and PC ready to go in trunk of car if things got nasty

Overt would look like:
Plate carrier with plates and backers w/ 3 rifle mags
Rifle slung
Battle belt with 1 AR mag, 2 handgun mags, med kit, handheld flashlight (in pouch), and OWB WML Holster w/ Handgun (Safariland duty type)
And don’t forget the tactical sunglasses, beard, and mean muggin hardass look :cool:

Like I said above, the threat level will dictate which kit I choose. In my matrix, things would have to be pretty bad to get to overt. Most of my kit will revolve around concealment which means an AR is out…ARs and concealment just don’t mix. I suppose I could add another loadout and call it something like Semi-Overt. This would be all the Covert gear with an AR slung. Think PSD vs Mil. In either of these cases, avoiding a fight is probably the best practice.

I’ll most likely be solo, and bugging out is pretty much last resort…and honestly it’s something square in fantasyland unless you have an actual place to go that is a reasonable distance away. Sorry, just my opinion.

5

Good topic Doc.
I normally carry and have 2 mags on me as well as a light, a “polite” knife, my normal folding knife, a boo boo kit, and my phone. I also carry a Maxpedition Fatboy with another pistol, extra mags, extra ammo, fixed blade knife, more first aide and TQ, zip ties, Velcro straps, few tools, gloves, buff, aluminum foil, zip lock bags, a few hard candies, energy bars, coffee, and kool aid, a water bottle, and a charger for my phone(wall and vehicle). That will get me home if I am out.
It is just the HH6 and I, so we are more prepared to bug in than bug out, but I am prepared to leave as well with bags packed, important papers scanned to thumb drives as well as on CD, and prepared for the pets as well. I also have the Ar, shotty, and bolt action ready to go. HH6 is also carrying and proficient with her pistol as well as the rifles and shotty.
We are getting much better prepared medically speaking, but are adequate. Each bag has enough for 3 days of food, IF we have to bug out.

Remember, be the gray man.

6

What’s buff? And what’s the kool aid, candies, aluminum foil, and coffee for?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

7

buff, think neck gaiter or sunscreen. Can be pulled up to cover your nose and mouth as well as over the back of your head …http://buffusa.com/sports?gclid=CLLal5ez4MMCFQ-saQodVDIAXw

kool aid, coffee … maybe needed or even just wanted
candies … quick energy also a comfort item
aluminum foil, large trash bags, zip lock bags, lots of uses :slight_smile: … like 100mph tape and paracord.

8

I like this topic! I’ve been thinking about this a lot, especially with regard to real-world uses to help tailor how I train:

I can’t carry at work, since the military has the wrong mindset when it comes to allowing cleared personnel to actually be armed on bases in CONUS… Not ideal, but I have to play by those rules to keep my job. So the usual scenario for me is being stuck at work or worse, somewhere hundreds or thousands of miles away from my family- with little to no protection, maybe a handgun if I’m lucky. I keep enough gear in my truck that I can make it home from work here locally (E&E is unlikely, but I could ditch the truck if I had to). Being on the road away from home is a different story, however.

To that end, my primary security plan at home involves everyone “bugging in” if possible, and I can be confident if the house is still standing then my family would be fine without me for a few days or possibly up to a week, even if utilities were not available. We are fortunate to have lots of neighbors we know well and can trust. Meanwhile I would be moving heaven and Earth to get home at the first sign of real trouble… So that’s “covert”, I guess.

My “overt” gear is a work in progress. Right now, I have a 72-hour bug-out bag which does double-duty for hiking expeditions. For a civil unrest/WROL/zombies type situation where I have time (>5 minutes) to plan ahead, I have a belt with pouches for several rifle and pistol magazines, med kit, and holstered sidearm. Armor is next on my shopping list, as soon as funds allow. The intent of all that is to provide a solid and modular system of defense in the event “SHTF” can be anticipated by more than a few seconds. Civil unrest and/or looters come to mind. Not terribly likely in my town since we are relatively small and isolated, but it is a possibility, especially in the event of a protracted loss of utilities and supply deliveries. More likely, the overt gear would be useful in defending an encampment or temporary refuge if we had to leave home. Sure, you’re a target, but if someone is stalking your camp, you’re ALREADY a target- best be a well-armed one.

Bottom line, having both covert and overt options you are familiar with is ideal since you don’t know what you might need if something bad happens.

9

My situation is that I will be bugging out to another location (long distance) for about 90% of everything because of my current location, everything from a Hurricane to Aliens. :jester:
I am getting set up to where my house, work, kid’s school, and daycare are all within a mile of each other. So if worse case happened I will be able to walk (or run) to their location and get them home well within 30 min max. Below is ONLY my set up to get from point A to our go to place.
I operate in four levels:

Permissive- I look at this as my everyday living situation.

Worn- Glock 23 (IWB holster) with 1 extra 15 round mag
	Gerber pocket multi tool and folding knife
	Surefire Executive
	Concealable body armor with 7x9 thin plates (available in truck)

Go Bag- This goes in and out of my truck. (KEEN Alameda 15 Messenger Bag) 
	4 extra Glock 22 mags
	4 30 round PMags (in a BFG 10 Speed Chest Rig)
	Basic Survival supplies
	IFAK
	48 hours’ worth of food
	2 32 oz Nalgene bottles full
	Boots (available in truck)
            My “truck” gun –16” middy with 13” Troy Alpha, Surefire Scout Light, and TA45 ACOG

Semi Permissive- This is where the threat is elevated to a point that I take extra precautions need to be taken. I would take this as impending SHTF. As an example this is when a hurricane has hit or is about to hit. Things have the potential to get dicey real quick. Everything is concealed but much more ready.

     Worn- I dress a bit more “ready”, good durable clothes (Cargo pants of some sort and a long sleeve shirt, my Merrell Sawtooths, Riggers belt, and gloves will be worn
            Glock 23 OWB holster
            Triple Glock 22 mag pouch
            Gerber pocket multi tool and folding knife
	Surefire Executive
            Concealable body armor with 7x9 thin plates (worn)
            Depending on the weather and how bad things are I may wear the BFG Chest rig

     Go Bag- Same as above but will be worn when exiting the truck. AR may be a 7.5” with LWRC Compact stock in the bag or the “truck” gun at the ready in the truck or broken down outside of it.

Non Permissive- This is where the S has already HTF and life is now a 2 way rifle range.

 Worn – Same clothes as above
             Glock 23 OWB holster
             Triple Glock 22 mag pouch
             Gerber pocket multi tool and folding knife
	 Surefire Executive
	 Body armor is not my full size kit (Mayflower Low Profile with level IV plates)
	 Haley Strategic D3 Chest Rig- 6 mags, Full IFAK, 3 L Camelbak, NVGs
	 ACH – Peltors with Como set up

     Go Bag – Is now a Kifaru Urban Zippy with several pouches on it.  Same supplies as about just in greater supply. Large Med kit is now in it.

     Rifle – It is now carried in the Open and is my Noveske 12.5’ (as seen in the Custom Build section)

Direct Action- I add this in as a worst case scenario. This is where S!@# is BAD and you are in the middle of it all of the time. I look at it as if you are moving from one area to another it is a running gun battle the entire way. Before anyone starts to comment about this, like “time to bug in if it is that bad”, STOP. It can always get worse. Very rarely will things get better. The whole “if you need more than 4 mags you are dead” is crap. I have been in situations like this in small groups and it sucks but it is not the death sentence that most people think it is, unless you have no idea what you are doing. And no I did not have CAS. That being said I plan for it.

Worn – I go full out with my BDUs set up like I had them in Afghanistan.  Everything else is the same.
            WarBelt with 3 Glock 22 mags( factory mags with Dawson Precision Extended +5) , 2 PMags, IFAK, Fixed blade knife, Dump pouch(SSE)
	Glock 35 with Surefire x300
	Eagle Industries PC with soft armor and plates (Complete load out with 8 mags and such)
	ACH – Peltors with Como set up

    Go Bag – Is now a Kifaru Urban Zippy with several pouches on it.  Same supplies as about just in greater supply. Large Med kit is now in it.

    Rifle – It is now carried in the Open and is my Noveske 12.5’ (as seen in the Custom Build section)

To explain more I have these set ups ready. I operate in the Permissive category set up and go back to the house to upgrade before moving out where I am going. Advantage to having everything very close.

This is only to get to where I am going. I have different gear and set ups for different situations once we get to where we are going.

10

My modus operandi is always to be the gray man. Being a practioner of this philosophy “Covert” applies 90% of the time.

- Describe your situation (real or hypothetical)

To many variables, this is a never ending mental exercise; what/who/where/why/etc.

- Group or individual

Individual and for family unit depending on the above. Statistically if the S is going to HTF it will occur when you are either at work or at home asleep due to the amount of time devoted to these practices.

- General use or bug out/ traveling

Dependent upon the scenario that is unfolding.

- Weapon systems carried and why?

Away from home:

EDC CCW is a G19 w/ spare G17 mag, Spyderco folder, SF E1L, SOG Crossgrip (mini multi-tool) on key-ring. Working 20 miles from home I keep a long arm in my POV. Worst case scenario is that I would have to hump it on foot if vehicle is down, roads are impassible, etc. A Kalashnikov with a side folder affords me the opportunity to stay “Covert” in a BFG Denied Area pattern discreet case. Five Eastern Bloc steel mags fully loaded with 7.62x39 ball in a shoulder slung bandoleer. Inside my POV is a GHB w/ a fixed blade (Gerber LMF II) and the usual effects.

- Amount of Ammo carried on you and why?

Away from home:

Two pistol mags (one G19 & one G17).
Five rifle mags (thirty rounders).

If at home, well then there is lot’s of options . . .

- If you plan to use both Overt and Covert then when and why for each?

Situation dependent. Again, gray man do not wish to draw attention to self if at all possible.

11

The Buffs are great, stumbled upon them at a big box sporting goods retailer last year and they are on the short list of things to add to the hot weather/sun protection preps.

I too keep packets of instant coffee/tea bags and Jolly Ranchers in our kits. I love the Pedialyte Powder Packs for this reason, think oral IV. http://pedialyte.com/products/powder-packs#variety-pack

These items not only keep one up and running but they are a great morale booster as well. If you are cold and having to live out of your GHB/BOB/etc. a hot cup of joe or tea goes along way in the morale dept.

12

Covert…all day long, and twice on Sunday.

Avoidance of other people at all costs if possible. I live about fifteen miles from work, and I would have zero problems getting to the crib via my shitkickers.

I sold my PC/Plates. If the world went south, you can forget vehicle support, and without vehicle support, plates ****ing suck. Plus, they make going prone a complete pain in the ass. In this world of tactically dynamic battle-space CQB interdiction faggotry, everyone seems to forget the fundamentals of SUT and marksmanship.

I pretty much have a layered system of hiking/backpacking/BO gear with me at all times. My work environment affords me to dress however I want, so cargos, boots, and riggers belts are “professional attire” for me.

Like you, doc, the Multitool is with me on a daily basis. I keep a Kabar TDI on me at all times, and I always have a machete/axe/large knife with me for work (Land Surveyor). Until I lost my JetBoil, it was my daily lunch companion. I’ve since replaced it with a small stove similar to a MSR pocket rocket.

For me, a SHTF event would be like my normal daily activities, minus vehicle support, and no electricity at the home.

My rural property is tucked well away from the urban cesspool, and I have access there to a constant supply of freshwater via well, or the river.

Unless we get so far as to be characters on the Walking Dead, my AR is strictly for popping hogs and coyotes. My primary would be a Beretta 92A1. I EDC two spares. I keep two more in my EDC bag.

For me, I will trade firepower for mobility and concealment every chance I get.

13

Good discussion so far. I like how everyone is explaining their thought process. Very informative.

Food for thought.

Everyone is heavily leaning towards the Covert side of things. As a discussion point could the simple use of Overt Gear work as a force protection measure? If you are a predator looking for an easy target wouldn’t you go to the group or individual that looks unprepared? In their shoes are you going after a person loaded out of looking plain? If you are in the middle of a bunch of panicked people it could also cause more problem than it is worth because people my look to you for help.

Just something to think about. Everything is situational.

14

Personally, I think going overt will depend on alot of things, but honestly may bring more problems than solutions. IMO, overt would fit well where you are part of a neighborhood watch where the members all get jocked up for patrol and everyone in the community knows you’re the good guy. Or, you have a situation where you need to go outside of “friendly lines” and things are bad enough that you (with 3+ more squared away dudes - preferably) will be rolling through with a purpose and prepared to dish out the pain at the slightest hint of a threat.

The reason I think it would bring more problems than anything is due to pre-emptive action and/or target of opportunity. For example, trying to walk around in an unsecured neighborhood with your PC and rifle slung may draw some pre-emptive fire from Bubba sitting on a rooftop with his 30-06. Or, if there’s still some semblance of law and order, you may find yourself on the receiving end of a First Responder’s pre-emptive action (LEO, Natl. Guard, ect.) that thinks he’s doing the right thing neutralizing what looks like a threat. As far as target of opporunity, I can see where you would present a hard enough target that criminals may move along…but a smart criminal will attack you from behind if you present a target that he knows he can’t defeat head on. Body armor, weapons, ammo, and gear is a pretty good score for a criminal who is operating with just a handgun who happens to get the drop on you.

Ultimately, IMO, going overt outside of your secured AO would need to be done in a group where 360* coverage can be attained and/or when things have gone so sideways that everybody is openly displaying arms (the new norm) and a threat of a gunfight is expected.

15

Ironman articulated my point, better than myself.

If one is decked out in The latest Kryptek fashions, rocking a PC, and strolling around, back on the block with a slung weapon, It says, “looking for a fight”.

I do not, in any way, see combat load outs as a deterrent in a WROL situational sitch.

16

This is spot on, my thoughts on the matter exactly.

17

If I may address attire for a moment and how it relates to “Overt/Covert”:

As a kid growing up I wore woodland BDU pants a lot as my favorite cartoon was G.I. Joe and my favorite TV show was The A-Team. My dad told me one time as I got older to dial it back a bit otherwise I could be taken as “radical”. Didn’t really sink in at the time but as I went with him to gun shows I started seeing what he meant. To date I do not own any MC/Kyptek/whatever clothing and or gear. I do not want people to perceive me to be MIL in a crisis and or an SKS toting militia buffoon.

For rural areas camouflage kit is great for blending in to one’s environment however you stick out like a sore thumb in an urban center and the burbs. I buy all my clothes and gear in Earth tones to include cold and hot weather. Daily wear for me in cold months is a pair of Duluth Fire Hose cargo pants and hiking boots, in hot months its Tru-Spec 24/7 cargo shorts and trail runners. I need cargos for my EDC kit, jeans are useless to me. Both the Duluth pants and the Tru-Spec shorts have hidden pockets inside the front pockets and or the side pockets that accommodate spare pistol mags/multi-tool, flashlight, etc.

This segues into vehicle preps since most of us have to drive to a job for a living it only makes sense to keep essentials in the vehicles. My wife works a white collar office career and has to dress accordingly. We have her a pair of hiking boots/socks along with her GHB in the trunk of her car in the event she has to go it on foot. Seeing images of office workers having to egress from Manhattan on 9/11 in heels and loafers through the debris and chaos really drove this point home for me. At the time I worked an office gig myself but wore Dr. Martin boots with my khakis so it was a non-issue for me then. Now that I work in LE I NEVER wear my uniform any place other than work. Should things go pear shaped it is the first thing I would ditch as it is a target indicator. I would then don my version of urban camouflage (cargos/t-shirt/softshell and a ball cap) for the trek home.

18

I agree with this. I see being overt as being a target… to the greatest extent possible, I want to blend in and go unnoticed…

19

Exactly. This and Ironman8’s post are exactly how I see it.

20

Some guys hit it on the head, totally situation dependent.

Overt = looking for trouble and dressed the part.
Covert = looking to gray man it through the situation until you can get to where you are going

Things to consider which have already been covered:

SHTF and you aren’t home = “get home bag” (rifle/arpistol/armor/food/etc), most of this stuff you can keep in a box in your trunk or in a locker somewhere.
SHTF and you are home = overt since you are home already and don’t need to be unarmored (unless your house is fortified)
SHTF and you are no where near home = you gata figure this out on your own.