Outfit my Rifle as a Defensive Carbine

Training Training and Tactics
1

Well, I’ve got an AR that for all intents and purposes is a solid foundation, but that’s about where it ends. I’ve been watching and reading a lot on modern defensive rifle tactics and suggested equipment, and in its current state it may suffice, but what does the membership of M4C suggest I add/change?

Basically my rifle is more-or-less a DI version of the LWRC M6SL (stock photo):

Exact specs:

  • BCM BFH 16" midlength upper, LW profile, A2 FH, fixed front sight
  • BCM BCG
  • BCM GFH Mod 4
  • Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight, XS same-plane aperture
  • MOE midlength handguards
  • Mega forged lower
  • G&R Tactical LPK w/ MagPul Enhanced trigger guard
  • Geissele SSA
  • MagPul MOE grip
  • MagPul UBR stock with H buffer and USGI spring (although I plan on swapping this out for either an A1 stock or Vltor A5 system with MagPul MOE)
  • Surefire G2 with KX4-BKHA on a MOE rail section mounted via Vltor SM-CK mount at the 10:00 foremost position

I also have a MagPul MVG and BAD lever, but I’ve taken them off as they don’t seem to suit me.

No sling. I have no idea where to even start with this, how or where to attach it, etc.

I already have a decent collection of mags that all work reliably and drop free, and a sizable amount of ammo that it likes, so those are covered.

Limitations:

  • I don’t have access to a work bench or machine shop, so suggesting a rail that involves much more than installing a DD Omega isn’t too terribly helpful…

  • Money is a little tight right now, but for something like a quality optic I can scape together a little. Probably not enough to cover an Elcan SpectreDR or S&B Short Dot, but maybe an Aimpoint T1 or EOTech XPS.

  • I’d rather not SBR. Paying $200 and waiting half a year for permission to do something that shouldn’t even be restricted is, to me, dumb.

  • If I’m going in completely the wrong direction, I’m not completely opposed to starting anew. I’ve got another stripped lower that is waiting to be made into something. :smiley:

So: what do you suggest?

2

  1. Sling mounts: Magpul ASAP is easy to install and cheap

  2. Sling: Pick one, theyre cheap

  3. Light:must have

  4. Optic: For a defensive carbine…must have

3

K… :confused:

4

Put a good sling on it and acquire a decent number of magazines (say, 20) and then invest whatever money you had slated to “outfitting” in training from some reputable instructors.

You’ll learn more about what works (and more importantly, doesn’t), what you need, what you want, and what options you prefer in class than you will taking suggestions on gadgetry over the internet. Classes offer you the opportunity to use and see a lot of different stuff without spending a crapton of cash to do so. Training also gives you a solid foundation on which to make decisions about upgrading a weapon intended for defense.

ETA: rob_s, “Buy a Colt 6920, or if you want lightweight get the Colt 6720. You will learn more with one of these guns, requisite ammo and magazines, and a good class than YEARS of reading on the Internet and theorizing and hypothesizing.”

5

So will any sling do?

And do I just use the loop on the underside of the FSB and the loop on the UBR, or what?

6

No. Check this out.

Have you heard of the ASAP before? Supr easy to install and just a good mount all around. Alittle noisy but it works good

The whole page I linked is about everything you need for your sling setup.

http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/51

7

For slings think about what you’re going to use it for, on one of my rifles( my primary HD gun ) I have a 1 point(MS2w/ASAP), on my other rifle and on my issue gun I run a VTAC 2 point. I like being able to cinch the sling and have the rifle tight to me and not need to worry about it flopping around when I need to use both hands for something. You most definitely need a light, and you can mount that right to your MOE handguards. RDS is also a must have, I suggest that you try to shoot with a few before you buy, almost everyone here will recommend an aimpoint of some type or another, but I’m a fan of Eotechs personally, never done me wrong. Than like its been said before, take some classes and shoot as much as possible, the more familiar that you become with the function and controls of the rifle, the less likely you are to stumble under sress. Go shoot it and enjoy.

8

I would get an Aimpoint T1 and a VCAS sling and call it good. after that just train, shoot and practice (not necessarily in that order). You have better than a basic defense rifle as is. 20 Mags sounds a little overboard to me, for simple home defense 3 or 4 is plenty to practice and shoot with. if you want to take a serious carbine class, double that number and you should still be OK. like I said, just my .02 if I were in your general situation.

9

This is good advice. Only thing I would add is a flashlight.

Then get some good training.

10

Why do people keep telling him to buy a light when he has one?
Why do people suggest the ASAP when he has a UBR which does not work with an ASAP and which already has it’s own QD cups?

OP:

Get an Aimpoint PRO. $410 from Palmetto State Armory. Comes with a mount.
Get a Mount-n-Slot QD cup that mounts in the MOE. It requires you to remove the handguard and drill a single hole. Should be easy enough for you.
Get the BFG Vickers sling with the sewn-in QD sling swivels. Padded or un-padded, your choice. I prefer the un-padded. Or you can get the Victory sling and add the cups yourself if you are on a budget.

FWIW, I only use slings at matches and classes. My HD gun doesn’t have one. This is why I suggest the QD sling solution, plus it makes it easier to store the gun, pack it, clean it, etc. if the sling comes off.

11

I recommend a Vickers padded sling. To be honest you don’t need an optic. Other than that you seem to be covered.

12

There is only one absolutely required accessory for a self/home defense rifle in my opinion, a light. I know you have one but make sure the setup allows you to switch it strong and support side. Also, momentary switching is great but the ability to switch it to constant on is very useful. Tape switches are great and necessary sometimes but I have a hard time trusting anything that can come loose so a secondary activation method for lights with a tape switch is nice to have.

There are three items that are very useful (but not required) for a fighting rifle:

  1. Optics - Not getting into it but I like an aimpoint t1 for cqb and m4 for general purpose. As a side note, I like the t1 further back and the m4 further up on the upper receiver.

  2. Back-up irons - If you use optics, in my opinion, back up irons become required. Electronic devices fail. You will need at least a back-up rear sight (unless you do something funky with your optic position) and possibly a back-up front sight if you are replacing the FSB. As a side note, I like a 1/3 cowitness with my m4 and have chosen the same for my t1; but for a while, I did have an absolut cowitness with the t1 because it made it easier to pick-up the dot in odd positions. However, I fixed this issue by moving the t1 closer to my eye and now I am comfortable with the 1/3 cowitness for the t1 also.

  3. Sling - Lots out there, try them out and find what you like. Personally I like a single point. I just use a piece of nylon webbing with a water knot (stitched ends). To overcome the hurdle of clipping it, I sling over my OPPOSITE arm and then I can hook the sling in a barrel up position (using a part of my light mount) if I need to go hands on and from that position, I can twist it to a barrel down, behind the back position for ladders, running, etc… This setup allows me to benefit from the single points benefits such as easily transitioning from strong to support side, going to high port without playing with straps, etc… But I don’t have the negatives of the single point, namely the inability to retain the rifle close to the body. The only downside is that when transitioning to pistol, the rifle tends to swing toward the pistol side due to it being slung over the other arm. The pistol should be out by then but if you have trouble on the draw, the rifle can actually make it a bit tougher as it swings back. Also, after transitioning, the rifle will bounce in front of you if you are moving which can be uncomfortable without knee pads. These are really not that bad and have never really bothered me much. This system works for me.

In the third category we have a few things that make life easier:

  1. Rail - I like a 12" rail. It gives me options. This is not necessary but it makes things easier.

  2. Magpul AFG2 - The only non-milspec thing I have on my rifle. I’m not a big fan of magpul (love p-mags though) but this gives me a good handstop allowing me to consistently place my hand so I can easily switch my light (either side). And it works with the thumb on top grip which I have been trying out for a while (not getting into pros and cons of that). I use the AFG with my index finger in front of the unit. Again, not necessary but consistent hand placement is important to me for light switching.

note: For consistent hand placement without a afg or rail, you can use the fsb as a stop so long as your light is setup so you can reach it ambidextrously from that position.

  1. Stock upgrade: I use an LMT SOPMOD. I don’t need it, but it does provide a great cheek weld. I do fine with the standard stock though. But for high volume shooting, your collarbone will thank you for the padded butt stock.

The forth category is all the goodies that in my opinion you don’t need on a fighting rifle. This includes triggers, comps, grip adapters, fancy charging handles, and on and on and on. Not saying that these items won’t work for you, but I would say that you should be an accomplished shooter before you tinker with this stuff.

Once you are a proficient shooter, you should have, at least for your primary rifle, a stable setup. Any small change should require a lot of thought and significant range time to become permanent. Sometimes you’ll be thrown a change-up and you’ll have to adapt to it. For example, if I had to add a laser to my setup, I would have to change my light, go with tapes for both light and laser and have the switches setup so I can activate them simultaneously - strong or support side. For me, that means no more AFG and tapes at 10:30 and 1:30 and back to the old school underhand support grip. That’s life and you have to adapt. But you should strive to make your primary setup as consistent as possible.

I have two identical rifles setup exactly in the same way. One is my range gun and the other has been broken in but only shoots the good stuff from time to time and stays zeroed. My range gun is the one I tinker with (one thing at a time) and if after a long process I decide I like the change, I make the addition to my primary.

It’s a system that works for me, I hope this helps.

Note: Many of these changes require mounts, low pro gas block, receiver plates, etc… I am not going to go into all of that but searching this site will help you navigate that.

Note: I apologize for the lack of eloquence and proper grammar, I am supposed to be getting ready for dinner and my girlfriend has been yelling at me for the last 15 minutes :slight_smile:

Note: In hindsight, I would place the LMT SOPMOD in the forth category, it is definitely not needed but I like it.

13

Above all GEAR, since you already have a gun that I will assume shoots and has a set of iron sights’ on it, is get training.

All the gear in the world wont teach you how to use it and how to begin to deal with an incredibly stressful situation like fighting for your life or for your loved ones.

So far most of the advice is sound, get solid gear that will make fighting easier or make you more effective in the fight. Past that train, train, train, and when your dragging ass exhausted, train some more.

Good Luck
R.

14

Some sort of two point sling: VTAC, Blue Force, hell a cotton web sling will work just fine too.

6-8 good quality magazines

2K-4K rounds of good training ammo, 120-180 rounds of good defensive ammo

Several good carbine classes.

That’s all you NEED.

I’d personally add an optic to the list, either a RDS or a holographic, but it’s not a necessity.

-Jenrick

15

An optic, such the Aimpoint Pro suggested by rob_s, will help you get more from most, but not all, training when you finally take classes.

Until then, do you have a USGI aperture in your LT-103? If so, I suggest, at a minimum, a same plane rear sight so you can take advantage of both apertures, depending on light available. Better still, try one of Paul Howe’s CSAT apertures while you are saving for the optic. I have used both.

CSAT Sight.

If all I had was the LT-103, I would (and have) gone to the CSAT sight on my LT BUISs.

16

First thing you need is a BAD Lever and an AFG!! :smiley:

Just kidding…

As stated, an optic isn’t necessary. I like IDF slings with paracord to attach them. Cheap, and versatile as hell.

17

Ambi controls, like KAC mag release, and safety selector are desired.

Ambi sling endplate like KAC, or Noveske are also desired.

Sling should be on there, VTAC, VCAS, CQD, or Gear Sector are optimal.

Markm’s IDF and paracord sling suggestion is also pretty viable.

A light, and light mount isn’t desired, it’s a goddamn requirement for me.

SureFire scout, tapeswitch, and Gear Sector offset mount, or KAC mount are optimal. I use KAC due to brand loyalty. But both a great.

An optic isn’t needed. Especially not yet.

18

No offense but I would absolutely disagree with the CSAT sight. I consider it to be a specialized sight. I have shot it at CSAT and there are good things to say for it but it requires a lot of training to use correctly (real world). It is a good idea and I do not have enough experience with it to advocate for or against it for a shooter who is proficient in at least the fundamentals. I do NOT think it is a good sight for a beginner.

Basically there is a top notch which looks like a pistol rear sight and a small aperture right below it. You zero the top notch at 7 yards and it gives you a rough 100 yard zero using the peep sight below it (of course you confirm it). You use the notch at close distances so you don’t have to worry about barrel sight alignment at closer distances. As a side note, I would like the notch to be a bit wider.

The concept is good, but what the top notch really does is mimic the “shoot the notch” technique that some shooters advocate by using the top of the peep sight (can do with an eotech also). The problem is that distance quickly becomes your enemy. Use this sight or the technique at 7, 10, 15, 25, 50 yards and see for yourself. The hits go off target very quickly. Is this the worst thing in the world? No, but there are no range markers in the real world and the disparity between the 7 yard hit and 25 yard hit is significant with this method, especially with low percentage targets. Yes, you can switch to the lower peep but that costs time (decision making and switching time). At least with the standard aperture (I use large inside 50-75 yards, small otherwise), at CQB distances, the barrel sight alignment can NOT be more than the the distance between the barrel and the sight (2.5-3 inches). That is KISS, the CSAT sight is not.

That said, I know that under pressure, even full-time SWAT guys forget barrel sight alignment and blow a jaw off rather than punch the t-box leaving the bad guy in the fight for longer than necessary. So I’m sure the sight has a place and with proper training be very valuable. Just not for THIS guy in THIS case.

19

Which one do you zero? Why? How do you account for the offset between them (unless you use a same plane rear sight?)

Flip the CSAT face down to use the standard, same-plane A2-style .200" diameter peep until he learns the basics.

20

For standard sights, I zero with the small aperture. The why should be obvious. At the distances I use the large aperture, the slight offset is not an issue in the least.

Maybe I am missing something profound here so let me know if I am. I am an armorer but only to know my weapon better. I am definitely not an expert on ar technical issues.

And just because I don’t think CSAT sights are something he NEEDS right now or even possibly ever, you are entitled to your opinion. In my first post in this thread, I break down my priorities as far as adding to a rifle go, this would be in that 4th category and a waste of time in my opinion for this shooter at this point in time. Not to mention, he already has a back-up rear sight.

I get that you like the CSAT sight but try to separate your bias from your advice. If you do this and come up with the same recommendation, then that’s fine. As I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Mine may seem off the mark to others here.