A 55-year-old Forest Grove man narrowly escaped a brawl with a drunk 21-year-old from Cornelius early Wednesday morning by firing a warning shot from his pistol while he was pinned, Police said.
John McKnight was walking his dog on the 1700 block of Elm Street about a half-hour after midnight Wednesday when he was accosted by a trio of inebriated young men.
McKnight said the three men assailed him with insults and continued to threaten him. McKnight then drew a .38 caliber pistol and told the trio to back down.
Police say Michael W. Ryan III, a Cornelius man with no fixed address, then said he didn’t believe the gun was loaded, and began to assault McKnight.
Police say that Ryan kicked and choked McKnight, who struggled to free himself. In the midst of the struggle, Ryan bit McKnight’s finger.
“He bit his finger pretty severely,” said Capt. Aaron Ashbaugh, spokesman for the Forest Grove Police Department.
McKnight told police that Ryan had him in a sleeper hold and he felt that he was losing consciousness when he fired a shot from his revolver near Ryan’s head.
Only then did the young man back off, Police said.
Officers were on the scene shortly afterward, responding to a number of 9-1-1 calls made during the incident. One of the two men walking with Ryan told police he also called 9-1-1.
Ryan was arrested on charges of Assault IV, strangulation and disorderly conduct and was booked in the Washington County Jail.
McKnight, who suffered minor injuries from the assault, possessed a valid concealed weapon permit.
i thought about posting this myself, but decided i didn’t want to be responsible for the bitch fest that would possibly ensure.
as i said on another local board, regardless of the guy’s tactics, or lack thereof, this is a successful self defense story. the man defended himself with a gun, the perpetrators are going to be held accountable, AND nobody was shot/hurt. in an ideal world, this is how it would always happen.
i dont condone waiting until he’s got his hands on you, nor firing into the air… but it worked in this isolated instance.
Threats are made, notification is given that the good guy is armed and will defend himself with deadly force. At that point if they assault goes on, is that always a ‘good’ shoot?
Does there have to be a deadly weapon?
Does 3v1 make a difference?
Everything worked out this time, but he got really close to passing out and having his gun used on him.
“I duun’t dinkkk, dat ghunnn his loddddid.”
BANG!
That settles that question.
This is where a nice BRIGHT Surefire flashlight comes in handy, not getting near the drunks to start with is better, and a real dog would have made the Ryan guy not even get close.
Dogs should defend their owners, not make their owners defend them.
Some pepper spray might have given him a good option earlier. He could have used it in response to the insults/threats and physical posturing.
The choke is deadly force, outside any disparity of force issues because of multiple attackers.
LOL, yeah Darwin Award nominee there.
BTW what is up with young guys biting off or trying to bite off old men’s fingers lately? I have been seeing reports of these bitings in numerous stories in the past few months.
I think if I pulled a .38 and they were still trying to get into a physical altercation with me, even only 1 guy with 2 bystanders, I would assume that they were going to attempt to disarm me and I would act accordingly by defending myself with deadly force.
Am I the only one on this board that doesn’t think that getting threatened, or even physically approached, or even physically attacked with fisty cuffs automatically warrants pulling a gun and gunning the other person down?
God if I pulled a gun on every person that threatened me in my life, and in every fight I have been in I would be a serial killer.
I get the logic of posting these threads, and in many of them I feel the use of a gun was warranted but some of the stuff I hear from members makes me wonder if any of you have ever been in a physical confrontation before.
This situation where a gun is pulled and they still keep coming is different than I believe what you’re talking about. One on one fist fight, mutual consent, is one thing. Pulling a loaded weapon with 3 drunk shitheads who want to pursue a fight after the fact is another matter.
I think the biggest thing is that if the decision path is draw/no-draw and then shoot/no-shoot you have forfeited the options offered by good situational awareness, non-leathal means, strong and forceful presence, and movement.
Sometimes I think these discussion get to wrapped around shoot/no-shoot when I’d rather talk about ways I could have stayed three decisions away from that.
That said, if someone is extremely beligerent and threatening assault, I think that warrants a warning that I’m armed and will defend myself. At that point if they advance you have done everything you can, and obviously they are willing to run the risk of death for whatever actions they are trying take.
The key factor here is the victim’s age at 55 vs the THREE suspects at age 21 or so. This is a LOSING situation unless you’re one helluva well trained fighter - and at 55 yrs old it’s not likely this guy was that if he ever was.
Police officers are trained that two unarmed suspects attacking one officer is a SHOOT situation, so a 55 yr old guy being accosted by three much younger belligerent drunks is not a problem IMHO.
Now generally speaking you don’t go to deadly force over a punch in the gut, but the situation and all it’s totality is what we must look at. In this case the victim waited too long, but he still pulled it off and survived so kudo’s to him…
I’m with Irishluck on this one. 3 v 1. Threats of violence. Pursuit. Not backing down after being warned of getting shot. So they get shot to the ground.
No agreed I realize that. But some of the things I have read are simple confrontations that result in the carrier drawing, and shooting prior to what I think is even close to reasonable.
You and I seem to be like polarized magnets on so many issues. I bet if we met we would get along.
First, I don’t carry. That has been brought up in threads before. And, I don’t carry for that very reason. I personally understand and have made my own ethical decisions about when I would deploy a firearm for the purpose of killing someone, and in my life I have never had a single confrontation with 1 human, 2 humans, or 3 humans on a public street, or out in the public world that would require such deployment.
You and a lot of other people would call me naive on this board and I accept that. I call myself comfortable in my environment, and with my ability to get from point A to point B without getting hospitalized. I realize confounding variables happen in life, like getting struck by lightning, but I personally have made the choice to not carry in order to feel more comfortable in a given situation. I also, and this is another point where people can call me fucking crazy if they want, don’t think that getting my wallet stolen is justification to kill someone.
I’ve been to almost every major urban area in the US, and I go where I please when I please in all of them. Same with rural areas.
I do know that being 6’4", in good shape, and young is a factor in my thought process, and that when I am older I may think differently but I’m not there yet.
This is my point right here. If you are smart, comfortable, and have good situational awareness 99% of all confrontations with other human beings will NEVER escalate to even verbal confrontations.
Human beings are just like animals, and if you know their habits you can exist in an environment alongside them just fine. (this is coming from a guy that backpacks in grizzly country, and sleeps peacefully at night with out a side arm as well).
I just hate it when they call “a miss” a “warning shot” . . . . It is hard to imagine, being in a choke hold (knowwing what those feel like) and intentionally missing.
Some pepper spray might have given him a good option earlier. He could have used it in response to the insults/threats and physical posturing.
I have been universally disappointed with pepper spray. It has never been as effective as I wanted it to be, as fast as I needed it to be, always a disappointment.
Yes,
a real dog would have made the Ryan guy not even get close.
Dogs should defend their owners, not make their owners defend them.
Exactly. Better than pepper spray, if he did need to have a micro-dog (some folks live in apartments and condos that don’t allow real sized dogs) might be to carry a poop scooper like a garden hoe . . . nobody wants the business end of a poop covered hoe. . . can you imagine cleaning the wound???!!
I know what you’re talking about on this matter. I’ve seen it on other boards and just shake my head cuz it’s a bit scarey that some of the posters are shooting people for getting shoved or punched in the gut in a one on one confrontation where factors are fairly equal, etc.
In this topic/discussion here the victim is good to go however.
I understand that being armed means being required to take alot more shit than I would otherwise and doing everything possible to avoid a physical confrontation.
If I’m forced into a physical confrontation(even with “equal factors”) the fact that I’m armed changes everything.The possibility of losing,even in a “fair fight”,even if only momentarily,takes on an entirely new gravity(and not just for myself).
“Fistsy cuffs” is for kids and the ring.The option for that stopped the moment I starting arming myself on a daily basis.There is no mutual consent for such things when I’m armed.If someone attacks me,after I’ve done everything possible to avoid it happening,that’s not someone I’m going to risk getting their hands on my weapon.
If you want to get physical with a grown man you should do so with the understanding it’s very possibly a life/death endeavor.
The only way I can imagine finding myself in a fist fight again would be if for some reason my weapon(/s) were down…Or maybe with a good friend or family member with whom I had developed a relatively serious issue.
Getting “shoved or punched in the gut in a one on one…”,depending on the circumstances…Is likely going to at least get my hand on my weapon,in a defensive position,with a warning of what’s next.
You’re assuming the robber won’t kill you after he robs you.
You’re assuming the attacker won’t kill or beat you to death while in the fist fight.
Happens “all the time” where I live.
I’m not advocating being trigger happy … far from it. But to assume that you won’t be beaten to death or possibly killed after you’re robbed for no good reason is just wishful thinking.
