I was looking at buying a new optic for one of my AR’s. Optics seem to be one of those things where the price for the same item can vary tremendously among different retailers. I was looking at getting a 512.a65, but there just wouldn’t be enough physical room on my AR with the Rear sight in place. It’s a fixed rear sight. Co-witnessing doesn’t bother me. Especially a 1/3. But the 512 just wasn’t going to fit. So I went with the XPS2-0. As a member of Sportsman’s Guide.com, I can get some decent deals at times. I was able to get the XPS2-0 for $432.69. That includes shipping and handling. The free shipping I got was a 1 day special that I could use yesterday, because I missed their special last weekend. So I ordered it last night. However; I still have up til tomorrow to cancel this order if I need to.
My question is: Is $432.69 a decent price for the XPS2-0? If not; can you tell me of a better price, including shipping? I’m not too upset about an additional $5-$10, but if there’s a significantly better price for a new one out there, I’d be interested. On Ebay, they were running about $480-$490 shipped. Retailers were all over the place. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks. Mike…
Thanks for the info. Based on yours, and other’s opinions elsewhere, I think I was at about the best price in today’s market.
I did see the one in the EE. I checked all the EE’s on all the forums before looking retail. The $400 price, plus 4% for paypal, and whatever S/H would cost, was going to put it at almost the exact same price as the guaranteed new one with a return option. That item was actually one of the reasons I posted this thread. Based on the average of $475, I wasn’t sure if $400 for a “Supposed” new was the price I should be looking for on a used one. But finding a used EoTech is a lot harder than finding a used Aimpoint.
Thanks for the info. I’m going to let the order ride. Thanks. Mike…
I run my XPS2-0 on a LaRue riser mount which gives a lower third co-wit and QD capability. I have been running this set-up since the XPS’s first came out 2 years ago and I love it. I highly recommend the LaRue riser mount if you have enough room on your receiver for it to fit.
ETA: If you do decide to get the OPMOD from OpticsPlanet make sure you order the version that is listed as “OPMOD w/ 65 MOA ring and 1MOA dot reticle” for $505. The other one that is $10 cheaper has the two 1MOA dots inside of the 65MOA ring.
I appreciate the info nick, but I already ordered the XPS2-0. Other than the controls on the side, I don’t really have a need to spend the extra $70 for the EXPS2.
As for a riser, I’m going to wait til I get the xps2. My rear and front sights are adjustable for both windage and elevation. I might be able to lower my rear sight far enough to cowitness at close 1/3. Then I can match the front sight to the rear. We’ll see. If that doesn’t work, then I’ll look into a larue or a Yankee eotech riser. Thanks… mike…
Ok, but you cant just adjust your iron sights low enough to be in the lower third of your optics and still have them zeroed. You need to raise your optic if you want a lower third co-witness.
I’m currently using a XPS2-0 on my KAC SR15. It’s working well with no issues. I adusted the 1 MOA dot to be right on the front sight post (irons were sighted in for 50yds). Then I sighted the EOTech in for 50yds and it was off 1 click of elevation and 3 clicks off on windage. I really like that this EOTech doesn’t need a riser and the integral QD mount. And the much more common 123 battery is a plus.
Sure you can; if the sights will adjust enough. “Not saying my can or can’t.” If I lower my rear sight, I can sight it back in by lowering the front sight. I may not get them low enough to be 1/3rd, but I might get them low enough that it’s satisfactory. Lowering both iron sights is the same as raising the scope. We’ll see after I receive the eotech.
$432 sounds like a good price to me. I paid alot more than that for mine. Mine was absolute co-witness when I mounted it. I later got a LaRue QD mount for it, which makes it lower 1/3. I bought the LaRue mount so I can change out from the XPS to my AP M3 & switch them to different rifles quickly. I love those QD mounts. They’re rock solid & return to zero every time.
If you choose to go the QD route, LaRue has decent prices on combo’s, that usually add up to a little savings over purchasing the optic & mount separately. Great people to deal with, too.
Nick, not trying to argue, but I’m wondering if we’re saying the same thing or misunderstanding each other. Using basic trig/geometry, let me ask a simple question so that i can better understand what you’re saying.
Assuming it’s physically possible:
If you have a red dot, e.g. EoTech, that co-witnesses absolutely with a set of iron sights, and everything is sighted in perfectly, what is the physical/mathematical difference between:
RAISING the EoTech 1/3" so the iron sights are viewed lower in the co-witness… OR
LOWERING the iron sights 1/3" so the iron sights are viewed lower in the co-witness?
My point was: Assuming that BOTH the rear and front iron sight were capable of being physically RAISED or LOWERED, that lowering them would accomplish the exact same thing as raising the scope. Do you disagree with this? Thanks. Mike…
Whether they are fixed or of the flip-up variety, the only portion of your front & rear iron sights that you can mechanically lower is the apertures. Adjusting/lowering the apertures in your iron sights enough so that they are in the lower 1/3 of your optics sight picture will result in your iron sights being adjusted out of zero. Regardless of how much you lower your apertures of your iron sights, the ears or frame of the front and most rear sights will still be visible in the center of your sight picture thru your Eotech XPS if it is mounted directly onto the receiver and not on a riser mount like the LaRue or the integral mount of the newer EXPS models.
There is a reason that most optic mount manufacturers standard mounts are all “Lower Third” height.
Red dot optics work in a completely different manner than iron sights do. A red dot sight is a completely separate sighting device from your iron sights. An optic does not require alignment with a front and rear sighting device, it simply superimposes a dot or reticle onto the target.
Nick; thanks for the response. Trying to co-witness for me, isn’t so much about lining up my irons with the eotech and using it that way. My desire is to have the iron sights available if needed, but somewhat out of the way. My front sight is a fold down, so that’s not an issue. But my rear sight does adjust for elevation. The entire sight adjusts. It’s a low profile that will adjust quite high in elevation. I am able to, with my existing sights and reflex, have absolute co-witness. I set it up so the rear sight was adjusted max elevation, and I adjusted the front elevation for zero. At this setting, the rear sight is absolute in co-witnessing. Right in the middle of my reflex sight. On paper, my reflex is the same physical height as the eotech, so it should line up similar. I won’t know for sure until i receive it. But with the existing rear sight, if I lower the rear sight completely; “Literally takes a couple of seconds”, I can get the rear sight below the middle eye sight of the reflex sight. Low enough that I can use the red-dot, in the middle of the sight lens, and not be blocked by the rear sight. This is totally acceptable. I could go with a fold down rear sight, but i like this sight and don’t want to change it out.
My point before was that whether you physically lower the iron sights or you raise the optical sight, you have accomplished the exact thing. I have no desire to actually shoot with co-existence. I personally believe that lining up a rear sight, into the red-dot, and superimposing it on a front sight… Well, in my opinion, it’s about the stupidest thing you can do for “PRACTICAL SHOOTING”. It takes a lot longer to line up that shot, and you totally defeat the purpose of the red-dot. For the person who is using the weapon for non-practical shooting, like competition and marksmanship shooting, it’s probably pretty cool. For the person who would use it for offensive/defensive purposes against another human, it isn’t at all practical.
So I think i can lower the sights far enough that it would work. Will it be as low as 1/3 co-witness? No. But it will be better than absolute. If I wanted to, I could adjust the front sight to match lowering the rear, and leave it that way. And I might do that. I have a millett sight that I used back about 20 years ago. It doesn’t have ears. It’s set up similar to a dovetail on a front open sight lever action. “Similar, not exact”. Similar to traditional front sights, but without the ears. The front sights are interchangeable. So once i get the eotech in, “tuesday”, I’ll see what my options are. Like i said; i want the lower co-existence, NOT to use for shooting the irons and eotech together. I want it lower, so I don’t have to use the iron sights at the same time as the red-dot.
While you can achieve cowitness at a plane below center-optic LOS over rail, going lower than the standard is not conducive to the application of sights at speed. One thing Stoner definately did well was BUIS design.
So you’re telling me that raising the optics .300 inches HIGHER than the normal plane in relationship to the iron sights, is different than lowering the iron sights .300 inches lower than the normal plane in relationship to the optics? Hmmm. Guess all those years of trigonometry and geometry were a waste of money.
If you’re talking about the trajectory impact at 400 yards, that there’s a difference by lowering the iron sights… I’d probably agree to that. But I don’t believe that a .3" deviation will have a noticeable affect on a target at 100-200 yards max; which is what the AR/M16 was designed for. It wasn’t designed to be a 300+ yard sniper rifle. Not even the caliber and ammo was designed for that. But mathematically, there will be a trajectory difference if you move the sights. But that .3" wouldn’t even be noticeable.
I’m talking about rapid, precise, first round hits.
ETA- Specifically related to presentation, and rapidly dropping into the BUIS in the even of primary optic failure.
But you don’t have to spend years in a classroom to understand why that would be desirable.
My point/question is: How do you lower your iron sights 1/3" below where they are currently zeroed at in-order to clear up the field of view thru your optic a bit and still maintain a useable “Zero” with the iron sights? Is that even possible?