I just recently moved to the state of VA. And I have a question as to whether or not open carry is legal if you have a CCW permit.
I have heard in the past that in some states if you have a CCW, it is illegal to open carry.
I am a bigger guy, and I carry a larger weapon, USP Tactical 9mm with the jet funnel kit and weapon light. So carrying concealed is quite the hassle, and carrying open is preferred. Yes, I could always get a smaller weapon, but that’s not the concern at the moment.
I have a CCW permit from PA, which has reciprocity with VA, and I am wondering if I am stuck to strictly concealed carry here.
Also, if I can in fact open carry, is there a law regarding holster retention? I carry in a kydex holster, similar to a raven.
I can’t speak for VA, but here in TN it is technically legal to carry open but I would highly recommend against it for a couple of reasons.
First it opens yourself up to be disarmed much easier and the ramifications that come with it.
Second, and maybe more importantly, you will get the attention of LE much faster. There have been a couple of incidents here in the past few years where local LE did not realize the law allows open carry and gave the legally armed citizen a very difficult way to go. Other citizens have called in LE because someone “was armed”, you can guess how quickly LE responded.
I personally knew one individual who was involved in such an incident. He went into a gas station and forgot to re-apply his cover garment, LE reacted in a manner you would expect them too when dealing with an unknown armed individual. After the situation was finished he received a letter of apology from the Chief who also promised that all his officers would receive training on the details of the state’s CCW laws.
This of course is not meant to knock LE in any manner whatsoever. Just because it may be legal, imo, it is a very bad idea.
A smart man once said, “Carrying concealed is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable.”
Also if it is really that uncomfortable or a hassle maybe you need a better holster. I carry a sig P226 with a X300 in a raven concealment holster OWB if in a button down or IWB if I am just wearing a T-shirt and have no issues with it being hard to hide or comfortable. I also carry a set of cuffs and two mags as mandated by my department and it is not an issue.
But, if all of this is falling on deaf ears and you are still going to open carry for the your safety and the safety of others, please get a good retention holster and practice weapons retention.
As far as I know there are also no issues carrying openly if you hold a CCW permit. As far as opening carrying just to do it…well it’s your neck with the “shoot me first” sign around it.
That’s an awful lot to lug around. Nothing wrong with that, but it definately limits your ability to function normally in your day-to-day activities. A coworker of mine just got out of plain clothes work where he worked narcotics. In all that time he carried a single stacked P239 9mm and one extra mag. He was involved in two shootings where he DRTed the bagguys, and in one of those he took down two of them. He’s also pulled his P239 about a dozen times during those nasty narcotics deals. The average citizen doesn’t attract very much shit…this guy was a magnet for violent encounters. Just a little perspective on how you can make a particular tool work great for you even when dealing with armed SOBs. Plus, he wasn’t impeded by carrying a butt load of equipment around.
As far as open carry goes, you have a MUCH better tactical advantage over a possible adversary if they don’t know that you are armed. Conceal carry gives you the element of suprise, and doesn’t mark you as a target. There have actually been a number of robberies in recent years in open carry states where a suspect was only interested in stealing the other person’s gun. Guns are a valuable commodity on the street.
I understand completely what you are saying. And while I do agree that carrying concealed does provide you with the element of surprise, doesn’t this also make you appear as a weaker target and thus make you more open to those types of situations in the first place? I would think the average thug will target those he knows he can take… If he see’s a 240 lb, 6’ male loaded to bear with an HK and 2 extra mags (essentially 55 rounds of 115gr FTX Critical Defense) on his hip, I would hope he would think twice and just move on down the line and find a lesser defended target.
I would think the principal of M.A.D. would be more beneficial than the element of surprise in these types of situations… as in prevention through the perception of mutually assured destruction… they know they will at minimum, get fucked up messing with you… where as if they see someone that appears to be unarmed, they may present themselves as vulnerable…?
I think the gentleman was simply stating the liability that open carry now has in a gun fearing world. Going out to get front butt may be a hassle but doing so won’t have fearful people call the cops, tempted thugs to grab your front butt from you and rob you with it, or law enforcement not know the laws with getting front butt and make your time tougher for it.
I get what you guys are saying. I guess it would come down to personal appearance, how well you present yourself as far as grooming and dress while you open carry. I would think that if you presented yourself in a professional, disciplined manner, most would view you as an off-duty LEO, and would not be alarmed by it. But if you were dressed in cut off jeans, and a wife beater while mexican carrying in Walmart, that’s when suspicions begin to become aroused.
As for this… Think of it from the average thugs perspective. A new gun with magazines and extra rounds probably looks very valuable to someone that needs quick cash. Him seeing that you are armed may invoke him to come fire two shots to the back of the head before you notice he’s in the same area. Which would prevent mutually assured destruction. I would say carrying concealed definitely does not make yourself a weaker target.
Carry concealed, always show an alert posture, and make eye contact with everyone to let them know you’re aware of them and anything they’re doing.
I think the last case I remember off the top of my head where an open carrier was robbed the guy was over 6" tall, a biker, and sported a 1911 with extra mags in plain sight. Open carry makes you a target, and unless you plan to have eyes in the back of your head at all times, you’d be better off as just roaming the streets with the image of a big guy who looks like he could kick your ass(but he has a CCW). It’s up to you though. I’m just going off of repeated observations in the field.
Where does the distinction lie separating open carry and concealed carry, as far as, if I am concealed carrying and the weapon happens to be exposed or prints, that is then illegal? Or could you just simply claim you were open carrying and your shirt became untucked?
Essentially, what I am getting at is, my weapon is large, however I’m not going to swap right now because I am very familiar with my current system. That being said, it does not conceal well with every type of dress, and in some instances, it is more beneficial to open carry with an OWB on-the-hip type holster.
I have looked around, but I am unable to find IWB holsters, or even just retention holsters that will fit a full size USP Tactical with the threaded barrel, night sites, and an M3X light. So I made my own kydex holster after following a thread from here.
Just open carry the pistol. You have every right to do so. If it makes someone else uncomfortable or occasionally causes a LEO to question you then it is a great opportunity to educate them on liberty. You can find lots of information and other people that open carry every day at opencarry.org. I have personally never had an issue with anyone or LEOs while open carrying.
To be honest, I am surprised at so many people on this forum advising you to give up your rights in order to make others feel comfortable or because criminals tend to look for armed people to rob. That doesn’t even sound reasonable. If you are living in Compton, sure, but most criminals are looking for a weak target.
There was a case in Georgia recently where a group of guys were going to rob a Waffle House, but they were waiting outside until the person inside that was open carrying left. A police officer found them suspicious and questioned them before they went inside and they admitted everything. How many times does a criminal choose a different target due to a person open carrying? Most criminals don’t want to take a chance on getting killed for a few hundred dollars.
I’m a career LEO & Vet. I can tell you with 100% certainty that going concealed is your best option. There are PLENTY of fools out there that do not give a shit about your HK or what type of ammo you have in a magazine, or your physical descriptors. “It is not the Size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog” that will win.
I would focus on tactics…not equipment. Carry concealed unless you’re on a range.
I view this less about rights and more about common sense. If you have your CCW Permit/License…use it. Utah is probably a bit different than most of the East or urban areas. I have heard the stories from others who have lived out that way or in Arizona and come back here crying about seeing people with a six shooter on their hip. Communities and society are different out there, I respect that and wish some of those expectations would carry over nationally…but they don’t.
Exercise the right of CCW… not open carry where the potential for problems is greater.
In this state, the “Permit to Carry a Pistol” is necessary but it applies to either concealed or open carry. Some states, open carry is legal without a permit.
As to the wisdom of it, that’s a personal decision. Some people feel as strongly about the political statement as they do about their personal protection. More power to 'em. Me, I’m a busy guy and wouldn’t enjoy the attention that open carry would bring me, nor do I really have the time or the inclination to try to educate the public and/or police officers on the Constitution or the law, especially while proned out with my hands handcuffed behind my back.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with open carry, i do it on occasion, and Virginia is a open carry friendly state. People on this forum seem to be generally against it, but they are also from all around the country. I recommend joining a Virginia specific carry forum and getting more information there about this matter. Nontheless, it is a viable, and perfectly legal option, and there is nothing wrong with it.
I like it when others open carry because it does reduce the chance of violent behavior by the typical criminal. But I do not do it for fear of being taken by surprise.