Federal 9BP, 115 grain standard pressure load.
Remington L9mm1, 115 grain standard pressure load.
That’s what I’m carrying on the mean streets. Anybody still packing old school?
Both are terrible, and not a smart choice for carry. Load development has come a long way since the late 80’s/early 90’s. Modern bullet design has moved beyond the idea that higher energy = better terminal ballistics.
Will say the same thing that I always say when someone brings up old/cheap defensive ammo. How much is your life worth? Mine ain’t cheap. In the scheme of things, you really have to be cheap to carry shitty defensive loads, and honestly, the shitty ammo ain’t much cheaper then Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST, or even Winchester Ranger JHP if you shop around. Hell Gold Dot and HST are less then .50 a round for christ sake. And please don’t be one of the limp dicks you goes out and buys Winchester Black Talons that are 20+ years old and carries them because they are no better. You want the Black Talon pedigree buy Ranger Ts, have better than a case of them because I personally like them, but there are several top quality defensive ammo choices out there to be had that won’t break the bank and are better than the cheapo ones you get at Wally World and they generally perform a hell of a lot better too.
Sorry for the rant, but don’t be stupid.
Defensive ammunition is light years ahead of what it was 20 years ago. Shoot your old ammunition during training/practice and purchase a more modern cartridge for self defense.
No.
They were mediocre rounds back in the day (hence why 40 S&W was born) and they’re just plain antiquated now.
My agency used to issue 9BP and I still have some for educational purposes. It’s performance against ANY type of barrier was substandard at best. It fragmented something fierce against auto glass and would not pierce stucco, thick leather or any similar surface. Additionally, the 9BP went through a few changes over the years. Most of the good stuff you read about it online (Stephen Camp, Mas Ayoob, etc) were dealing with the early iterations and not the stuff the produce of late.
Do yourself a favor and buy some HST or Gold Dot.
I bet you shoot in a bladed weaver stance too. :rolleyes: That ammo blows, plain and simple. Numerous outstanding suggestions on totally decent self-defense ammo in this thread. I personally prefer Ranger-T in the heaviest bullet weight available for a given caliber. If that’s not available I use GoldDots. My normal EDC is 12+1, with another 12 147gr Ranger-Ts.
IF…FORCED to use one old school load…it would be .45ACP 230gr. Ball. NOTHING else.
I still have some Remington .38spl +P LSWC-HP’s.
I still have a case of Federal 9BPLE and would carry it without hesitation.
I guess I don’t understand, L9mm1 is still made by Rem. I actually bought a box last year. Why is that “old school” ? Is it because of the bullet design ? I don’t keep up with the whiz bang latest supa powha manstopper FBI tested cutting edge ammo stuffs so forgive me if that is a “stupid question”.
When I think “old school” I think of 158gr semi wadcutter .38 or wadcutters loaded backwards.
At any rate, I’ve been using golden sabers in my pistols that see SD duty for some years now and see no reason to change that.
YMMV
straight shooter
IF…FORCED to use one old school load…it would be .45ACP 230gr. Ball. NOTHING else.
Got only one choice over here. Still using FMJs which is better then praying.
Have since turned in the G19 and just carry the 44’ dated Remington Rand along with a M14.
CD
Shoot the L9mm1 in low light and share with us what you observe. The range might light up like a 5"/54 was fired.
In my humble opinion, flash retardant is an important characteristic of a defensive round.
Ball in any caliber is also a terrible choice. .45 ball is no better than 9 or 40 ball.
Please read what I said…“IF…FORCED to use one old school load”.
Also…you are factually DEAD WRONG about 45 ball being " no better" than9 or 40, but, that’s an argument Im not inclined to get into, so you just have your opinion, Ill have mine.
I used to carry Ranger 115 +P+ for many years. It was abundant and cheap and could be had online for ~180-200 dollars per case (Pre craziness political upheaval of course).
One day I got crazy and decided to do some home ballistic testing. Needless to say after that day I stopped carrying them. Without my book in front of me I can say penetration never exceeded 10", fragmentation of almost every round through the mediums I was using, horrible weight retention and many cases of jacket separation.
I switched to Ranger 124 grain +P for 9MM and Ranger 180 grain for 40 S&W.
Recently I switched to Gold Dots in 180 grain for 40 and 135 +P in 38 SPC. 9MM will be the next to be changed to Gold Dots 124 grain +P once the Rangers are exhausted.
Are there better options than what you have listed? Yes. Will what you have listed work? Yes, caveat to that is, shot placement. The ammunition you have listed perform horribly when barriers are encountered. There’s always better.
YMMV when it comes to the ammo circle.
If I dig around my ammo stash I can come up with some Winchester Silver Tips in 9mm,
and some Black Talons.
Oh look, another ammo debate.
I don’t see why someone would intentionally carry outdated defensive ammo when modern defensive ammo is readily available with demonstrably better terminal performance. Hell, you can find Critical Duty, HST, Gold Dots, and a lot of the other loads recommended by Doc Roberts (anyone remember him?) at the local sporting goods shop these days.
I’d link to the DocGKR essays, but that’d probably get me banned. Haha. His stuff is still good reading. Of more recent note… read the memo from the FBI “justifying” their switch back to 9mm… it’s more of an info-memo to LE agencies in general though, IMHO.
Save those old loads for the museum of SD ammo history!
And updated pretty regularly, to boot.
I’d consider carrying those loads over hardball, but that’s about it.
Okie John