“Old School” so to speak. Have had RDS on long guns for quite a while and like them for speed and ease of use (not like I’m “fast” or anything).
This my first dance with one on a handgun. I must say that for some reason it seems more difficult to acquire than a long gun device. Obviously the objective is smaller than a rifle RDS, and maybe that is the problem. I haven’t shot it yet but have been doing presentations and I’ll be damned if I don’t have to search to see the dot each time, certainly not a good idea if forced to use the weapon in an emergency. Like I said, it’s new to me.
Any advice? I know that repetition after repetition is what will develop muscle memory and finer motor skills, but is there another facet I should be addressing? I am used to throwing a pistol up, focusing more on the front sight as I use the top of the slide to guide me, but I find myself looking for the dot. I guess it’s just not “natural” for me yet?
There are some good videos on Youtube of techniques to help. Sage Dynamics has several. Warrior Poet Society recently did one about the presentation specifically.
In the end it definitely takes practice to re-wire you brain. Keep going, it gets easier and more natural.
I’ve been carrying the dot for a couple years now and I still start every shift at work with several draws.
Strangely enough, whenever I present one of my old Gen3 Glocks the sights are even more perfectly lined up than before. I think the RDS forces even better presentation.
I’ve had the same experience. The dot simply highlights the existing deficiencies in people’s presentations. Once you’ve learned to present the dot consistently, your iron sight presentation will have also improved. The dot simply shows you what you’re already doing wrong because it doesn’t lie.
I’ve had the same experience as well, but I believe that’s common when first going to a red dot on a pistol. I don’t own one and so I haven’t had the chance to put in the practice it takes to get good at it, I’ve just tried shooting my buddy’s setup. It’s not like a rifle where 4 points of contact automatically align your eye with the optic. There was a good thread on this very topic in the semi-auto handgun sub forum, I think it was called Ken Hackathorn on red dots. There’s a Holosun model with a large circle around the dot that assists in finding the dot and people have said helps especially when first starting.
That’s a great point. Someone in the current red dot thread in the handgun forum also mentioned that it’s great for dry firing practice too because it shows you exactly how much your trigger pull is jerking the gun around.
I can still remember searching for the red dot in the tube and it was a learning curve, initially I was much faster with irons, especially with a weapon light. Eventually I got as fast with a red dot on a carbine, still not sure it’s faster than irons but I am sure that when I have the rifle canted or I’m shooting from a less than ideal posture the red dot is more correct than the irons.
I imagine there is a similar corollary with RDS on a handgun. For me it’s holsters. I finally got holsters for all of my rail model handguns, I have no immediate need to switch everything over to RDS handguns. The day will come when I’ll feel compelled to get one and then I will.
Yes! That’s the one I have. It’s like a miniature EOTech on a pistol. That’s why I bought that particular model as I figured the larger outer circle would make the whole thing easier, kind of like the rifle version grabs your attention (obviously the window is MUCH bigger).
Practice practice practice. It IS unnatural. Growing up on irons you really do need to retrain yourself. A class or high intensity training program is the best bet. After 2 Years I’m comfortable, but it’s still not as natural or fast, especially from unconventional positions but the advantages far outweigh the drawbacks
What’s funny is that at some point, probably not too far in the future, some kid is gonna look at you when you try to teach him/her irons like “Are you living in the Stone Age or maybe the 90’s?”
Training with, and shooting, a MRDS equipped pistol has made me a better pistol shot, even with irons.
The dot is just as effective a training tool as it is a shooting implement.
It forces you to refine your presentation and grip, and highlights deficiencies in your trigger control during dryfire.
ETA: as far as advice, don’t worry about “finding the dot”. Work on proper presentation, and TARGET FOCUS.
The idea is, focus hard on the target (really, the spot on the target you want to hit), and bring the pistol up, when the dot is superimposed on the target, press trigger.
Hard target focus is extremely efficient with irons as well.
Think of the pistol optic as a confirmation device for point shooting, especially at close range.
If you have irons on the pistol, in addition to the RDS, try making a habit of lining irons up,as if there was no RDS, and the dot will appear if it is zeroed properly.
The way it works for me.
The box is the frame of the red dot sight. The Window is the glass. I have silencer sights on mine which lift up the sights perfectly.
So Box, window, sights and red dot in that order.
Your arms come up, you see the box, you line up the sights, the red dot appears on the front sight. Bang.
Personally I don’t recommend using the irons to align the dot. Just bringing up the gun normally, with hard target focus, will show the dot superimposed on target.
I don’t think about finding the dot, I point the gun.
The exception to this, and where using the irons in that way CAN be beneficial, is when shooting at night (read VERY dark, little visual referrence on the pistol), or from extremely awkward positions, i.e. laying on your side, shooting around cover (these being the main reasons for my preferrence of sight type).
But under most circumstances I’ve found that just pushing the gun out gets you there. If you’re not seeing it, or “noodling” ad Jerry Miculek might say, your draw and grip mechanics need work.
Which, as a side note, is one of the great things abou pistol MRDS, it kind of forces you to refine these, in a way that you should already be doing ANYWAY, even with an irons-only gun.
I trained myself in this initially with a slide devoid of irons, as well as occluded optic, just so I wouldn’t be geared toward using the sights to “get there”.
What I’ve done to practice my presentation with RDS goes like this. In a dark room I draw and present the pistol, acquire the dot. Then I activate my wml and see where the dot is in comparison to my irons. If you’re doing it right the irons should be aligned properly and the dot should be sitting on the front post. Also don’t forget that as long as you can see the dot, you can make accurate shots regardless of where it is in the window.