Off-set irons on a serious use 'general purpose' carbine

Tactical Gear Optics & Mounts
1

Just running a thought experiment, here…

Like many folks, I often find myself in search of an ‘ideal’ ‘general purpose’ carbine. Spurred on by the HSP/BCM ‘Jack’ (of all trades) carbine I have built my own ‘Montana Jack’ carbine (so-called because it shares many of the same concepts but, as with all things in nature, the further north you go, the stockier they get: so a CHF 16" barrel instead of 14.5", 13" SMR instead of a 10", VLTOR MUR instead of a USGI upper, &c.). Defense, competition, hunting, &c. all fall within its mission objectives. I have seen images of the prototype ‘Jack’ shown with folding BUIS and an RDS, folding BUIS with an ACOG and off-set T1.

So my thought: Off-set iron sights with a variety of optics mounted via LaRue or ADM QD throw-levers.

So, for home defense, run an AimPoint Micro (or other reflex sight).

For competition, duty (in the mountains), and big game hunting, run a low-power variable or ACOG.

For varmint hunting and precision shooting, a high-power variable.

All with the SureFire RTS as back-ups.

The reasons: Always there, always up. If you need them, simply cant the rifle: No need to throw any levers or flip any sights up. Unlike an optic, it cannot fog up due to temperature shifts and humidity (ie; bone-dry outside at -20 to inside at 65+ with 80%+ humidity), and snow and rain are less likely to obstruct the sight, and failure is less likely.

The only disadvantages I can think of are if the optic has a rather serious failure (suffers the brunt of a serious fall, causing the optical housing to break, for instance), the off-set irons are a less-than-ideal set-up for a primary sighting system. If a suite of optics are available, though, it is simply a matter of swapping the damaged optic out for an undamaged one. The other major failing point might be that the off-set irons may tend to get caught on things.

Am I batshit crazy for thinking this is a good idea? Anyone have any relevant thoughts or experiences they would like to share?

Thank you, in advance!

2

If I had them and used them. I would run them with a fixed or variable scope. Some Trijicons acogs have the little irons on top too so that can be a back up. Both would also give you a sighting system for close range and in case the main optic goes down.

You can run a agog with the small irons, offset buis, and maybe a offset rds. So you got a back ups for your back ups.

I myself use flip up sights front and rear. I use a aimpoint on a larue mount or a variable scope with a mount that has the thumb screws.

3

I use side mounted sights that are folding for a couple of reasons, one they store better and easier when transporting them and at times I may not need them at all so I fold them down. Personal preference I guess. I run a JP hand guard and a JP off set mount so they mount at a 1:30 position and align with the bore. Also the JP side mount mounts lower than a lot of the 45* mounts on the market.

4

I have been on the same path regarding an LMT MWS I have on order (since August). I’m holding out for some different options to come out down the road.

I would like to see Daniel Defense or Troy Ind. make a version of their A1 BUIS in an offset configuration. The RTS looks good, I’m just not sure I want an A2 rear sight.

5

I’m also not sure about compatibility with the RTS sights and the MUR-1A models.

6

Go check out Kyle Defoor’s blog

sent from mah gun,using my sights

7

It all depends on training. If you train with offset irons religiously and commit it to muscle memory, than I don’t see why it wouldn’t be a viable option.

8

Someone I respect has a set of back up iron sights that are mounted at an angle. You have to cant the rifle to the left to use them. I handled the rifle and it seemed like the sights would work well if his Aimpoint was broken and he could not see through the glass. He had been running the set up for a few years and liked it.

I had a fixed FSB on one of my carbines and tried going the other direction so I would not have to replace the FSB. I had a small RDS on an angle mount, which allowed me to use the RDS while the rifle was canted to the left. My irons could be used while the rifle was held upright. I had to be conscious of not snagging the RDS on anything while moving with the rifle.

A lot of valuable lessons I learned the hard way. I broke the RDS while banging the rifle around during entry drills. I broke it by running it into a steel door jamb. If you ever considered setting a carbine up the way I did, I would not recommend it.

9

Nifty.

At least if I am insane, I am not insane alone!

I think I shall acquire a set and see how I like them.

ETA (for informational purposes): Found a picture of a gun with a Noveske complete upper (with Noveske MUR) on Gunbroker or Gunsamerica with the RTS sights. Doesn’t look like it should be a problem.

10

Edited my last post last night regarding this… And now I can confirm that the RTS are compatible with the MUR.

11

Why wouldn’t they have been to begin with??

12

I would guess concern with the geometry of the FA/deflector interferring with the positioning of the rear iron.

13

Correct - if the DD/RTS sights can go where the KAC Offsets cannot, then I’m ordering a pair of them right now. That’s about the only stupid mistake I made with my recce build - I can’t run the KAC irons at the back of the upper.

14

Gotcha, I didn’t think of that. Good to know that these work though…thanks

15

Would you mind linking to the relevant blog entry? I ran a search on his site for “offset irons” and “iron sights,” but I didn’t see an entry that dealt expressly with offset irons.

16

http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/page/5

Scroll down, they are mentioned in few posts. Love his blog…

17

Thanks, I didn’t know we were talking about his tumblr. I was searching what I thought was his only/main site:

http://www.kyledefoor.com/?m=1