You are assuming that the City of Oakland can’t afford adequate public safety. Would the city be able to afford it if the city government managed it’s resources more effectively or based it’s financial decisions on the public good instead of increasing their odds of being reelected?
No I am not, I am assuming the move is based on a lack of funds for whatever reasons. This is a classic liberal government move, slash more important services like Police/Fire/EMS and then expect the taxpayer to beg for a taxhike.
We see this in the Seattle/Tacoma area on a routine basis.
Washington State using a similar technique even holds the commuter hostage by pissing away our transportation budget on light rail and other fool’s errands instead of widening highways.
I think you’re confusing “pot” with “Prohibition”.
At least you were able to work through to a logical conclusion at the end there.
The “war on drugs” sure is evil.
Exactly. Taking BS reports in person takes 3 or 4 times longer than doing it on the phone or via online. As cities and counties and states continue to collapse financially you’ll see more and more of this.
Power play by the police union. Some rank and file cops on the street will lose their jobs while the desk jockeys put for the press releases like this to terrify the city gov’t into caving into their pension and compensation demands.
This happened only after the city and the union’s pension talks failed.
California police unions pull this crap all of the time. “Give us money or you won’t be protected” and what the money is really for is pensions.
Yup, that is what is behind most of these cities’ and states’ financial woes. To cushy of a pension for too long.
Ive been a cop well over 20 years now I MIGHT see a pension of 3400.00 before taxes.
Ive been shot at multiple times, in multiple shootings. Had people try to stab me, hit me with stuff, gotten spit on.
Ive been in more fucking fights then I can count, responded to more dead people calls then I care to think about, and still show up on your door step to take your barking cat complaint without complaining.
I missed pretty much every event or special event my children had, Not for the money, there is none, but because I believed in what im doing for we the people.
I can’t tell you what upper management is doing as I never sold out, and tried to promote.
I do take exception when you say my retirement package is a problem cuz after I did the job, you feel like I got to much.
So why don’t you ladies step up to the plate, pin a badge on work 20 plus years at every shit shift there is, every nasty job there is dealing with all the bad society has to offer, then let’s have this chat.
You won’t do it, if you did you would have nothing to snibble about.
Dirk D Williams
Dirk, I didn’t mention you individually so there’s no need for the personal soliloquy. If the shoe doesn’t fit in regards to your pension, don’t try to force it on. I can cite exactly what I’m talking about. Would you like the links?
As far as stepping up, United States Marine Corps Infantry. And I won’t go into a litany of all the crap I had to put up with in order to make my point.
These 2 things go hand in hand.
I missed pretty much every event or special event my children had, Not for the money, there is none, but because I believed in what im doing for we the people…
So why don’t you ladies step up to the plate, pin a badge on work 20 plus years at every shit shift there is…
Many of us here have missed months and years of being with our families due to being in the military, for me it was the USN. I used to work shitty shifts too, they lasted 6 months at a time, and my last shitty shift was 11 months out of 12.
I think you’re taking these comments way too personally. Step back and realize that people can criticize and critique what’s happening with and in an organization without slandering the individual Officer.
Well the article in the OP is hardly the only one on this subject. The reality is that is EXACTLY the case. The Oakland PD simply ain’t rolling out for many things anymore.
So who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters? The PD are supposed to come out so they can do something about it like “investigate” and talk to potential parties that may be involved. But they probably stopped doing those things decades ago. They reduced their involvement to documentation only (file a report - do nothing else) and now they have gotten to the point where they won’t even come out to do that, because the victim can now do that job for them.
Bottom line if you don’t have a PD that functions as a PD (and this includes disturbing the peace calls and taking reports) then you really don’t have a functioning PD.
I probably understand the nature and demands (and unfortunately the the sad reality) of police work more than you think. And I have seen everything from competent efficient community policing to minimum required effort policing. Only part of Oaklands problem is budget. The other parts are a community that tolerates crime and criminals so they have them in larger numbers than most communities. And a police force which has adapted to that community and has an apathetic view towards the situation. Worst thing you can be is a good cop in Oakland.
Almost a certainty. Crime certainly isn’t their number one priority.
Two tours, 8 years in the USN, and 4 as a weekender in the guard.
Been is a uniform of some sort since I was 4 years old, I am a believer, and tired of the poooo getting hammered everytime you guys think we did something wrong, not even knowing the facts.
There are thousands of cops in america, guess what even the good ones make a mistake from time to time, it’s the nature of the beast, split second choices with nothing but shitty conclusions.
Standing in front of the boss taking your medicene from a boss you think is a cheese dick.
Never the less you except the responsibility for your actions no matter how many times you have been second guessed by folks who wern’t even there and don’t have a fuckin clue.
Fella’s why don’t you share with us cops on the board what you think is a fair retirement benifit
D irk D Williams.
Dirk, you’re still complaining. Do you want to address the topic of the thread or maybe just start your own on your personal grievances?
Something that doesn’t bankrupt the city. That may be more than they’re making now, it may be less. If the citizens want a police force that has better retirement for it’s public servants, they can elect officials who will make cuts in other areas to accommodate these pensions, or they can elect officials who will tax the ever loving crap out their residents to the point that the city begins a decline into Detroit style poverty and economic stagnation.
At some point it becomes Toyota employees vs. GM employees. One is a relatively well run company with employees, one is a company that should be bankrupt and gone with no employees.
I say that as a person who recognizes that most police officers are woefully underpaid. But I don’t like the notion of pensions at all. Pay the officers more and allow them to be responsible for their own retirement. Frankly I feel the same way about most public and private sector workers. Pensions cost too much for too little benefit to those whom they’re supposedly for.
Any 20 and out retirement system that does not have a disability requirement or minimum age is idiotic. The state will be supporting someone for 30+ years (average lifespan) for doing 20 years of work.
There is one issue for you
Bowski, your right im on a rant for some reason. I have lot’s of friends at OPD, they work their butts off in a “state side” war zone.
I don’t pretend to understand the politic’s of any of this, the bottom line is simple America is broke, the media and apperantly you guys want to balance the books on the backs of public employee’s.
Regarding the OP those crimes are pretty serious, however most big citys have gone to a you “Make your own report system” for many cold crimes.
The prisons are full, no cops to respond to some hot calls, and we are spending more money per prisoner then we are on our school children.
Something is out of wack, and it dosen’t appear that we the people are going to consolidate and fix the problems. Hmmmmmmmmm think Ill go to the range and shoot my 338.
D Williams
I misunderstood your post, we are in agreement.
As an officer, I can see the public’s point that some police union pensions can be inflated, and can harm the city’s funds, the department’s budget, etc. I also understand the appearance that Oakland cops don’t want to do their job, though I disagree with that observation, as would anyone familiar with American policing. Is some civilian oversight needed? Sure; my city is in the middle of this debate right now.
Some key points:
By and large, many American police unions (hose jockeys too) are prohibited by state statute or by the city’s charter or ordinances from any sort of work stoppages, slowdowns, or impediments, commonly called a STRIKE. In fact, some areas can levy criminal charges against strikers or their unions. Not sure how or if there’s ever been a notable case on this, but the fact remains that a long used or threatened tool to improve wages and conditions is not available to us.
Larger cities will often have separate police unions. The unions in these cases are often divided at a certain point around where an officer would cease working the street entirely. Example: our union represents us up to and including the ranks of Sergeant, Detective, and Investigator (sworn crime scene analysis). More often than not the “last hired, first fired” method applies; though its definitely the most expedient way to determine who gets to feed their families, its not always the most fair. Not talking socialism here, but who should go first- the old vet who doesn’t leave the station, or the younger cop who’s still running traffic and names? Who’s really working, and who goes first? The answer’s usually the same. Problem is, there’s really no other way to do it as quickly.
As public employees, cops and firefighters lose 3 of the most fundamental employee rights: the right to complain about working conditions, the right to publicly criticize its employers, and the right to negotiate their own wage. The first is closely tied to my first point about unions. The third looks like its tied to collective bargaining, but its often not. The police and fire departments, like the military, aren’t places where you can walk into your bosses’ office, and ask for another $.25 an hour, an extra day off, permission to take a half day, show how the shop across the street does it, and offer to leave if not compensated what you’re worth. The second is all politics.
This is more universal to anyone who wears a uniform and knows how to stand at attention: You’re expected to make it in to work when any sane person would stay home due to the weather or catastrophe. You have to expect being called away from your personal life for a day, a week, a year, with often little to no prior notice.
No other job in America, not even the military, is as tolerant of civilian control of their day to day activities than police departments. While one can argue that the military is under civilian control, as it well should be, its not under civilian supervision. You don’t have American citizens looking over your shoulder questioning your every move and complaining to your CO, or the rest of the citizens, that they know your job better than you do. I’ve never seen anyone tell a firefighter that he’s fighting a fire wrong. Somehow, people have that mentality when it comes to cops. Not that I don’t recognize that I work for the Chief and the Mayor, and therefore by extension, the citizens of my city.
No other job runs the risk of running into a dissatisfied customer that wants to do you harm, when you’re not working. Firefighters don’t have worry about a crash victim finding them, nor does the military worry about Hadji knocking on their door when they’re back at home. Or worse, finding my family. I do.
Only police unions, through the past actions of a few very bad eggs, immediately conjure up an image of corruption, croneyism, sloth, and graft. Ask about a serviceman’s retirement, or even a firefighter’s, and there’s no question that they’ve earned it. Police? Its assumed that its not earned.
On budget and staffing issues:
Show me a job where you’re expected to perform the same number and frequency of duties, at the same standard of quality, with 10% less manpower than you had the day before.
Show me another job where that same 10% staffing reduction made your job that much more dangerous. Military? You bet! Firefighters? Sure.
Show me a job where your bosses understand that. Again, private sector types will. Public sector types won’t.
Show me an industry where the public and the bosses expect you to perform to such a high expectation when the chips are down, but won’t provide the budget for that to happen. Paul Howe shooting on a Boy Scout budget. We also have a bigger fight getting some of the tools that we need. The libs want us to not look intimidating, and hard right doesn’t want us to outgun the public. Go far enough to one side and it just loops around.
That’s why cops have pensions. That’s why those pensions appear to be high for public sector retirements. That’s also why unions are rightfully so protective of them, so people who think that pensions are the reason that budgets are out of control, or the cops are being lazy, don’t come and take them.
A word on that: A half a lifetime of adrenaline spikes and drops, constantly witnessing and dealing with the decline of your own society and community, without a release, government funded PT, counseling, along with the hazards of shift work, leaves cops with higher alcoholism rates, divorce rates, suicide rates, and heart disease rates. Some studies have even shown that we generally have less time after retirement to enjoy it.
I have a feeling that this will be my last post here in a long while. We’ll see; the crowd has changed. I’m off to enjoy my vacation; I’m sure I haven’t earned it.
Society will always get the police service it wants, and the type of criminal it deserves.
Ya know, post one critical word about LEOS or more precisely, their departments or unions and people come out of the woodwork beating their breasts about how tough their job is, how they deserve this, and no one can understand how rough it is. Now, even the military doesn’t have as tough of a job as LEOs.
It’s just tough all over on the criticism. That’s what happens when abuses occur and they do every day. It would be heartening to hear “gosh, maybe unions should have agreed to cut ever yofficer’s pension a bit, maybe raise contribution levels instead of playing hardball and firing the guys out on the street.” Heck, even an admission that silly, wildly optimistic promises forced upon city councils during better economic times (before the economic recession) should be negotiated back down to more realistic levels so that towns don’t literally go bankrupt would be nice. Is it going to happen? No.
No, instead we hear a long litany about how rough it is to be a cop. And it is rough. And it’s a volunteer job. And large city and CA police unions are running amok.
God, I’m sick of the “poor me” litany. Can’t we have a discussion without the appeals to emotion? Can you guys not take informed criticism at all?
Excellent article on police unions.
You could say the same thing about Congress and the President. The only problem is “society” doesn’t represent every individual. And it is those individuals who have to suffer the Obama’s, Pelosi’s and Ted Kennedy’s as well as departments like the OPD.
They suffer as much as the few “good cops” stuck in those departments. Ignoring these “crimes” will only make their job harder (not easier) because it will encourage criminals and criminal activity. It will only help the cops who “don’t care” anymore.