Noveske Ultralight (Update)

Project Noveske Ultralight

Update on pg. 2

Original:




Project intention: To build a dedicated HD rifle weighing 96oz or less using the finest factory available parts (e.g. no re-profiled barrels), without cutting corners to shave weight (e.g. Polymer lowers), and without a SBR stamp. The target weight had to include RDS, BUIS, rail attachments and a light for room clearing.

This rifle was built for two reasons, the first justifying the second:

  1. I wanted a dedicated, high-quality, reliable, HD rifle that would always be there if needed. One that was set-up well to maneuver inside and that was lightweight enough my wife would feel confident handling it.

  2. I also wanted to achieve something when it came to weight. While 96oz is fairly arbitrary, I determined the target weight while looking at other lightweight builds. Most non-NFA rifles seemed to be somewhere in the mid to high 6lb range using factory available parts and including an RDS, BUIS, and light. The target weight is a snap-shot it time as far as lightweight product offerings go and as AR tech changes but I do think the 6lb/96oz goal is still an accomplishment given the build parameters and what the market has thus far to offer (01/14). I would have just fallen short of this goal if it were not for some innovative new lightweight parts recently released.

The inkling for this build was Noveske’s Thunder Ranch rifle w/ 20oz 14.5" Skinny barrel. I knew a standard lower would be lighter then the Gen 2 and at the time the NSR was the lightest rail out there (since eclipsed by the MI keymod and the soon to be released BCM KMR). So I decided I would follow it as a template with standard receivers and build them with the lightest parts and accessories that could be found along the way (Robb Jensen’s project featherweight was helpful and inspiring, https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?39599-Project-Featherweight ). I did not, however, always choose the lightest part if there was a strong preference for, or benefit to, a part with slightly more weight. Even without those few heavier parts that I choose in place of lighter ones, with their combined additional weight subtracted, I would still be right at the threshold of the target weight before swapping in V7’s lightweight lower parts.

Parts list (decisions for heavier parts explained below, denoted by asterisks):
•Noveske factory assembled upper receiver group,
-Mil-spec upper receiver w/ forward assist*
-14.5" mid Skinny contour CHF M249 spec barrel w/ pinned Noveske lo-pro gas block.
-Permed BCE 1.5
-Noveske spec head-spaced bolt w/ colt copper spring and black insert,
-11" NSR
-Noveske/BCM gunfighter mod 4 med. latch
-LMT enhanced carrier, auto profile, Gen 5*
-V7 ultralight port door

•Noveske standard chainsaw lower,
-Geissele SD-C
-MOE trigger guard
-Noveske STS ambi 60 degree safety
-UCWRG Grip 23*
-Vltor A5SR 6 pos. receiver extension*
-Springco green rifle spring*
-A5H0 buffer (equivalent to H carbine)

  • Colt N1 CAR stock
    -V7 ultralight alloy castle nut
    -V7 aluminum QD end plate
    -V7 alloy takedown/pivot pins
    -V7 alloy mag catch and alum. mag button
    -Colt bolt catch
    -Colt springs, detents, and roll pins

•Attachments,
-MOE Gen 2 rear sight
-Aimpoint T1 mounted on Fortis F1 fixed, lower 1/3rd mount*
-Rosch works SL-1 integrated sight/light
-KAC thumb stop
-IWC keymod handstop
-Noveske QD keymod mount
-VCAS padded sling, black w/ IWC QD swivels and 2to1 adapter (not pictured or included in target weight)

The KAC thumb stop is brilliant paired with the 12 o’clock ROSCH WORKS SL-1 sight/light!
The SL-1 deserves a high place in innovative acclaim. At 3.3oz it is the lightest sight/light combination available and that is saying nothing of its brilliant sighting solution and ambi ergonomics.
http://www.roschworks.com/site/9c4055b76a1d452a8e915fde951867ae/home?url=http%3A%2F%2Froschworks.com%2F#2749

Part selection rationale:
-Upper with forward assist (8.6oz) vs. Upper minus forward assist(7.3oz–7.5oz)

I wanted a factory Noveske upper receiver assembly which limited my ability to have a lighter, mil-spec profile upper minus a forward assist, 7.3oz-7.5oz vs 8.6oz (weights include mil-spec port door assembly, https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?87685-Weight-amp-advertising-Vltor-MUR-1s,
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2940). I am ambivalent to the FA, if Noveske would have made me an upper without it, I probably would have taken it. Now as seldom used as the forward assist is, and as germane as deleting it might be to this ultralight build, it is not wholly unwelcome on a fighting rifle. It is insurance the bolt is in battery after the rifle gets bumped around. It allows for chambering a round through soft obstructions (i.e. snow). And it helps when silent chambering a round by riding the charging handle forward. On the other hand, the forward ridge on the bolt carrier preforms these functions just fine, as originally intended by Stoner himself.

-Auto-weight bolt carrier vs. low mass carriers ( https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?10343-Which-Bolt-Carrier )

Since this carbine is meant for HD, messing around with lightweight carriers was not territory into which I wanted to venture for the sake of reliability. I am no expert but all of the experts who do play with lightweight carriers and adjustable gas blocks recommend that for defensive guns, where reliability is life or death, standard weight carriers should be used. From what I understand, reliability with standard weight carriers is better than lightweight carriers because the BCG reciprocates more slowly and with more inertia. The slower reciprocation/cyclic rate allows the magazine spring ample time to feed the next round while the greater inertia of the assembly strips the next round and chambers it with more momentum, allowing for function when the rifle is fouled, dirty or in extreme cold.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?39616-Reciprocating-mass-and-the-recoil-impulse
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?137709-How-reliable-are-Low-Mass-BCGs

As far as the LMT enhanced carrier goes, I chose it over a standard auto carrier because much testing by other members here has determined that it is more useful than just treating the symptoms of over gassed guns via the extra gas vent hole. As the carrier begins to move rearward the revised cam pin track geometry delays the bolt unlocking long enough to allow for more of a drop in chamber pressure before extraction begins. Less chamber pressure means less force pushing the case walls against the chamber walls and thus less resistance to pulling the round out of the chamber. In this way the E-carrier seems to actually increase the guns reliability, so long as there is enough overall gas pressure to cycle the action. Which, so far, seems to be a non-issue on most set-ups using the e-carrier, even with 14.5" mid-lengths.

Though a LMT technical rep told me in no unclear terms that I was wasting my money on the E-carrier if I wasn’t running full auto on a long barrel w/ carbine gas system, it seems the e-carriers reduction on cyclic rate is its secondary benefit next to the revised cam pin track that allows chamber pressures to drop more before extraction begins, thus allowing the case to be removed with less friction against the chamber walls.
The extra venting capacity comes through the tiny weep hole, which vents the chamber directly behind the bolt tail/gas rings when the BCG is locked in battery and then the extra/third vent hole that is uncovered after the the bolt unlocks and the carrier is already in motion reward.

FWIW, my theory of the e-carrier is that as long as you have enough gas pressure to cycle it, the main benefit is the revised cam pin track. I don’t know if this is 100% accurate but it does seem like either the e-carrier is quite modest in reducing gas pressure in the gas system or most guns are over gassed, or both. But since the e-carreir allows cases to be extracted with less work due to lower chamber pressures/friction against the case and chamber walls, and because the revised cam pin track allows the carrier to gain more velocity moving straight backwards longer before the cam pin is engaged laterally by the unlocking lobe in the track, the e-carrier can get away with venting more gas because it preforms less overall work.

see: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?163243-Bolt-Carrier-exhaust-vent-size-variations/page2
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?125899-LMT-Enhanced-Carrier-Technical-Comparison
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?150517-New-Drop-in-adjustable-gas-system/page2
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?33743-Best-Suppressed-SBR-Ever
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?120349-LMT-Enhanced-Bolt-Carrier-Testing
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?109353-LMT-Enhanced-Carrier-A5-system-BCM-14-5-quot-middy
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?160543-LANTAC-Enhanced-BCG

-UCWRG G23 (2.35oz) vs. original MOE-K (2oz):

As light as the MOE-K is it just was not comfortable. The G23, alternatively, fits me perfectly and is still one of the lightest grips available. Its thick tang places my hand perfectly for perch of my trigger finger pad upon the slightly extended reach of the flat Geissele trigger face.

-Vltor A5SR RE/Springco green (6.05oz) vs. V7 carbine length RE/ Springco blue (5.2oz)

The A5 system is a winner. I was willing to add .85oz to have the smooth, continuous rifle length spring rate and the spring loaded buffer weights unique to the A5 buffers, which keep the buffer mass consistently against the BCG during unlock. Also, “The counter weights travel twice as far, when compared to the [carbine/rifle buffer]. This design produces a ‘dead blow’ effect rearward and forward (counter recoil), which eliminates all bolt bounce.” ESK (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?130030-Vltor-SBR-with-FOG-what).
The A5 allows a greater range of reliable tuning with heavier buffer weights as well. I tested this upper as configured with a A5H2 (5.45oz) buffer using Tula .223. It cycled and locked back on an empty mag 20rds in a row. Currently an A5H0 (3.75oz) rides in it for good measure. Since it is a life support gun, I don’t want any surprises. I will probably step it up to a A5H1(4.55oz) and call it good. With the forthcoming lightweight V7 forward assist assembly, trap door rod and safety selector coming in, I should still hit my target weight.
The 6 position A5SR tube (4.05oz) makes the most sense with a open ended stock such as the 4.4oz Colt N1 CAR, it keeps the stock from collapsing beyond the end of the extended length tube as it would on the regular 7 position A5 RE (4.25oz) and is .2oz lighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnrVJT4UU10

-Aimpoint T1/ Fortis F1 combo (4.35oz) vs. Trijicon RMR/ RM34 mount combo (4.9oz measured)

I considered the RMR but decided the T1 was better and, surprisingly, is lighter when mounted. The T1 mounted on a Fortis F1 weighs 4.35oz measured (3.05oz+1.3oz). The RMR only weighs 1.25oz but the RM34 mount weighs 3.65oz and the ADM RMR mount weighs 3.5oz, for a mounted total of 4.9oz and 4.75oz respectively. In both cases the T1/F1 is lighter. As far as features go, I would rather have the T1/F1 combo with 2moa dot, mounted battery changes, longer battery life, 1/2" at 100yd click adjustment (vs 1"@100yd), lower 1/3rd co-witness, and a proven track record. But, unlike the RMR, the lightest T1 mounts (Fortis F1 1.3oz and DD Micro 1.7oz) are not QD. But I decided QD wasn’t wholly necessary on a dedicated HD/nightstand rifle after watching the DD torture test video; my T1 will survive where I will not. Short of taking a round directly to the optic, the only thing it is realistically susceptible to is fog and rain, but inside the house should not be a problem there. [UPDATE] ScalarWorks LDM micro QD mount has changed the game. It is no compromise at the same weight as the lightweight fixed Fortis F1 mount but with a true quick detach securement. Thank you ScalarWorks for setting the bar!

Someone really needs to make a lighter mount for the RMR on the order of 1oz or less, something like the Fortis F1 or ScalarWorks LDM scaled down to the size of the RMR would be perfect and scary light (if strength was a concern it could be made out of the aluminum alloy V7 uses). The weight benefit of the RMR might be worth the feature trade off at 2.2oz mounted. [Update] The Larue Tactical LT827 QD RMR mount is the current lightest RMR mount at 2.35oz. It is exceptional quality and is much lighter than the ADM and RM34 mounts and actually places the RMR in almost a lower 1/3d co-witness. However, the feature drawbacks of the RMR still do not beat out an Aimpoint Micro on a ScalarWorks LDM, even though the LT827 and RMR combo at 3.6oz is finally lighter than the ScalarWorks LDM/Aimpoint Micro combo at 4.35oz. A lighter RMR mount is still needed to balance out its drawbacks.

For anyone interested in weight savings on future builds.
Parts weights for reference (measured [+ or - .025oz], if not weighed source link is shown)

Lower Half

Lower Receivers:
-Standard Noveske N4 lower: 8.85oz stripped (MOE trigger guard assembly: .22oz
together = 9.07oz )
-Gen 2 Noveske stripped lower w/ integral trigger guard and flared mag well: 9.75oz stripped
-Rainier Arms RM15 lower and A-DAC forged lower (w/ .05oz tension screw; made by MEGA): 8oz stripped (not sure why it is .85oz lighter than the Noveske?)
-Aero Precision stripped forged lower: 8.35oz
-2A Armament BALIOS-lite stripped lower w/ integral trigger guard: 6.55oz stripped
-Battle Arms Development BAD556-LW Lightweight 7075-T6 bilet lower: 6.8oz
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad556-lw-lightweight-7075-t6-billet-lower-receiver
-Mag Tactical Systems magnesium lower w/ integral trigger guard: 5.875oz stripped
http://www.magtacticalsystems.com/index.php/2013-07-29-03-32-34/2013-08-01-17-32-25/product/10-black-lower#specs
-Tennessee Arms Company Hybrid Nylon polymer brass reinforced lower receiver: 5.6oz stripped
http://www.tnarmsco.com/hybrid-polymer-lower-receiver-any-color-free-shipping/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

Lower Parts

Trigger guards:
-KAC trigger guard (new version): .4oz
-MOE trigger guard assembly: .22oz

Triggers:
-ALG QMS mil-spec trigger: 2.55oz
-LMT 2-stage trigger: 2.25oz
-Geissele SSA, SD-C and SSA-E, SD-E: 2.25oz
-Geissele SD3G: 2.25oz (w/4.5# spring 2.3oz)
-CMC flat trigger 3.5# w/ stock pins: 2.75oz
-V7WS Titanium Geissele trigger pins: .083oz (3 sets weighed .25oz) and the stock steel Geissele pins weigh close .14oz (3 sets weighed in at .40/.45oz). The V7 -TI trigger pins were exactly the same diameter as all of the stock G pins (.1545" with my calipers) and were consistently .003" longer than the stock pins.

Safety Selectors:
-Noveske STS ambi safety selector: .55oz
-DD mil-spec safety selector: .6oz
-BAD CASS SA/ST (long & short) safety selector: .85oz
-V7WS right hand 57* selector: .3oz
-V7WS ambi (long,short) 57* selector: .35oz

Bolt Catchs:
-Colt bolt catch: .4oz
-V7WS S7&8620 Bolt catch: .3oz
-Seekings enhanced bolt catch: .55oz

Takedown/pivot pins:
-Noveske nitrocarburized pin set: .5oz
-DD mil-spec pin set: .5oz
-BAD Enhanced Pin Set: .5oz
-BAD Titanium EPS Ionbond black: .3oz
-V7WS Titanium pin set: .3oz
-V7WS aluminum-alloy pin set: .17oz

End plates & castle nuts:
-V7WS alum. QD endplate: .18oz (3 weighed and divided)
-IWC steel QD endplate: .65oz
-Noveske QD steel endplate: .5oz
-Magpul QD steel endplate: .75oz
-Vltor steel endplate: .5oz
-DD alum. QD endplate: .225oz
-V7WS alloy castle nut: .225oz (3 weighed and divided)
-Vltor steel castle nut: .65oz
-DD steel castle nut: .6oz

Mag catch assembly:
-V7WS alum. alloy mag catch and alum. mag button: .17oz (2 weighed and divided)
-Colt mag catch and mag button: .35oz

Pistol Grips & Grip bolt:
-Original MOE-K grip: 2oz (current version is thicker 2.2oz)
-UCWRG Grip 23: 2.35oz (no grip plug by design)
-MOE grip: 2.55oz (w/ .2oz grip plug)
-MOE-K2 grip: 2.65oz (w/ .2oz grip plug)
-A2 grip: 2.8oz
-MOE Plus grip: 3.25oz (w/ .2oz grip plug)
-Magpul steel grip bolt: .25oz
-V7WS titanium grip bolt: .1oz

Reciever Extentsions, Springs, and Buffers:
-Vltor A5SR 6 pos. RE: 4.05oz
-Vltor A5 7 pos. RE: 4.25oz
-DD 7075 carbine length RE: 3.8oz
-V7WS 7075 carbine RE (original first run): 3.6oz
-V7WS 7075 carbine RE (later run but before reliefs between notches): 3.7oz
-V7WS 7075 carbine RE (current w/ reliefs between notches): 3.8oz
-Phase 5 tactical pistol RE: 5.2oz (w/ foam pad), 4.8oz (w/o foam)
-Vltor rifle spring: 2.2oz
-Springco green spring: 2oz
-DD carbine spring: 1.85oz
-Springco blue CS spring: 1.6oz
-Springco white CS spring: 1.5oz
-Primary Weapon systems H4 carbine buffer: 6.95oz

Stocks:
-Battle Arms Development, BAD-LBS-MIL stock : 3.2oz (w/ .2oz steel bolt)
-AR-UL-E fixed carbine stock assembly: 9.15oz, 6.55oz minimally configured
receiver extension tube: 2.65oz

foam pad: .55oz
gusset/clamp w/ screw: 1oz*
sling mount (w/o additional plug screw): .35oz
clamp-on butt w/ screw: 2.9oz*
rubber butt pad w/ screws: 1.7oz
-Colt N1 CAR stock: 4.4oz
-DSArms fiberite CAR type stock: 4.6oz
-Colt/Rogers Super-Stoc: 6.56oz
-MOE stock: 8.55oz
-MOE-SL stock: 9.7oz
-LMT SOPMOD w/ storage plugs: 11.55oz
-Magpul SRT stock (w/ stock 1.5oz buttpad and screws): 13.05oz
-LMT DMR308/762: 22.6oz

Upper Half

Upper Receivers:
-Standard mil-spec forged upper: 8.6oz with .7oz mil-spec port door assembly & .75oz forward assist assembly, 7.15oz stripped
-Vltor MUR 1s minus forward assist : 8.4oz w/ mil-spec port door assembly, 7.65oz stripped https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?87685-Weight-amp-advertising-Vltor-MUR-1s
-Rainier Arm’s mil-spec profile forged upper minus f/a: 7.3oz w/ mil-spec port door assembly, 6.6oz stripped
-2A Armament BALIOS-lite upper minus forward assist: 5.75 oz stripped
- Battle Arms Development BAD556-LW Lightweight 7075-T6 Billet upper: 6.31oz
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad556-lw-lightweight-7075-t6-billet-upper-receiver
-V7WS forged M4 upper: 6.9oz stripped http://www.v7weaponsystems.com/collections/frontpage/products/v7-m4-stripped-upper
-V7WS basic mil-spec forged profile upper minus f/a & minus port door mounts: 6.4oz stripped http://www.v7weaponsystems.com/colle...upper-receiver
-Vltor MUR 1a (Noveske/old style): 9.6oz w/ mil-spec port door & f/a, 8.15oz stripped http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.uppers.html
-Mag Tactical Systems magnesium upper: 4.8oz stripped http://www.magtacticalsystems.com/index.php/uppers/assembled-uppers/product/219-assembled-upper#specs

Upper Reciever Parts:
-mil-spec steel port door: .525oz
-V7WS AR15 alum. port door: .26oz
-V7WS AR10/SR25 alum. port door: .3oz
-mil-spec steel port door rod: .2oz
-V7WS AR15 alum. port door rod: .07oz
-V7WS alum./steel forward assist (w/o spring): .32oz
-steel mil-Spec forward assist (w/o spring): .72oz
-Boomfab Titane titanium bolt carrier w/ gas-key: 4.4oz
-JP LMOS QPQ steel carrier w/ gas-key: 6.7oz
-JP LMOS Aluminum carrier w/ gas-key: 3.76oz http://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPBC-1

Charging Handles:
-BCM Gunfighter CH Mod 4 (med latch): 1.25oz
-BCM Gunfighter CH Mod 5 (small latch): 1.15oz
-AXTS Raptor: 1.4oz
-Mil-spec charging handle: 1.15oz
-V7WS lightened mil-spec charging handle: 1oz

Muzzle Devices:
-V7WS titanium A2 spec flash hider: 1.05oz
-V7WS titanium v-grooved extended A2 flash hider: 1.25oz
-2A Armament Titanium T3 Comp 556: 1.5oz
-BCE 2.0 ( w/o shims): 1.8oz
-V7WS Titanium 762 Furion Brake: 1.5oz (w/ .5oz crush washer)
-V7WS Titanium 556 Furion Brake: 1.85oz (w/ .1oz crush washer)
-Adams Arms/Voodoo Innovations Manimal Low Profile <.750” Extended A2 Flash Hider: 1.5oz
-BCE 1.5 (w/ .1oz crush washer): 2.1oz
-PWS FSC556 (w/o shims): 2.45oz
-BCM Mod 1 gunfighter comp: 2.8oz
-KAC MAMS 556 1/2x28 (with shims): 2.45oz
-Surefire SFMB556 1/2x28 (w/ shims): 3.95oz
-SilencerCo Trifecta Brake 1/2x28 556 (w/o shims): 3.95oz
-SiCo ASR Muzzle Brake 5/8x24 762 (w/o shims): 3.65oz
-SiCo ASR Muzzle Brake 1/2x28 5.56 (w/o shims): 4oz

Gas Blocks:
-Syrac .625 adj. gas block (w/ 2 set screws): 1.4oz
-V7WS .625 titanium gas block (w/ 2 set screws): .75oz
-V7WS .750 titanium gas block (w/ 2 set screws): .8oz
-SLR Rifleworks Sentry 6 adjustable .625 titanium (w/ 2 set screws): .9oz
-SLR Rifleworks Sentry 7 adjustable .750 titanium (w/ 2 set screws): .97oz

Barrels:
-8.25” V7WS .300blk fluted stainless barrel: 15.15oz stripped
-11.5" carbine BCM ELW-F enhanced lightweight fluted weigh: 16.85/16.95oz (two measured stripped)
-14.5” Mid Faxon Firearms 556 Pencil 4150 QPQ barrel: 17.44oz stripped spechttp://www.faxonfirearms.com/p/113/145-556-ar-15-4150-black-qpq-pencil-mid-gas
-14.5” Mid Faxon Firearms 556 Gunner 4150 QPQ barrel: 19.27oz stripped weighed

-14.5" Mid Noveske Skinny barrel: 20.85oz stripped
-14.5" Mid BCM Standard ELW-F: 20.55oz stripped
-BCM ELW/F Barrels courtesy of MilitaryMorons:
14.5” ELW 1.324 lbs = 21.184oz
14.5” ELW-F 1.292 lbs = 20.672oz —.512oz difference
16” ELW 1.421 lbs. = 22.736oz
16” ELW-F 1.388 lbs. = 22.208oz —.528oz difference
-16” Mid Faxon Firearms 556 Pencil 4150 QPQ barrel: 19.05oz stripped http://www.faxonfirearms.com/p/81/16-556-ar-15-4150-black-qpq-pencil-mid-gas

Rails Systems:
-BCM KMR 7" rail only: 3.05oz
-BCM KMR 10" rail only: 4.3oz
-BCM KMR steel barrel nut: 1.6oz
-BCM KMR mounting hardware: .70oz
-BCM KMR steel clamp block pair: .35oz
-V7WS Titanium BCM KMR barrel nut: .9oz
-V7WS titanium BCM KMR clamp block pair: .2oz

RDS, RDS mounts, and RDS accessories:
-Aimpoint Micro T1 w/o mount: 3.05oz
-Aimpoint Micro bikini lens cover: .3oz
-Tangodown IO Cover: .55oz
-KAC Micro battery cap: .225oz
-Stock Aimpoint Micro battery cover: .2oz
-CR2032 battery: .1oz
-ScalarWorks LDM (quick detach, 1/3rd co-witness): 1.3oz, 4.35oz w/ micro T1 (weighed together)
-Fortis F1 (fixed, 1/3rd co-witness): 1.3oz, 4.35oz w/ Micro (weighed together)
-Larue Tactical LT751 (QD, absolute co-witness): 2.45oz , 5.55oz w/ Micro (weighed together)
-DD Micro mount (fixed, 1/3rd co-witness): 1.7oz
-Trijicon RMR-06 (w/ 2 mounting screws and .1oz battery): 1.25oz
-LaRue Tactical LT-827 RMR mount w/ QD lever (lower 1/3rd co-witness): 2.35oz, 3.6oz w RM-06 mounted (weighed together)
-Trijicon RM34 mount (QD, absolute co-witness): 3.65oz , 4.9oz w/ RM-06 mounted (weighed together)
-ADM RMR Mount co-witness: 3.5oz

Back-up sights:
-Bobro lowrider sights (aluminum) = 1.7oz
.85oz rear
.85oz front
-Spikes Tactical micro sights (aluminum) = 1.9oz
1oz rear w/ adjustable elevation
.9oz front
-Magpul MBUS G2 (polymer) = 2.5oz
1.16oz Front
1.3oz Rear
-MBUS PRO (steel) = 3.3oz
1.52 oz front
1.79 oz rear
-DD fixed sights (aluminum) = 2.8oz
1.1oz front
1.7oz Rear
-KAC Micro (steel) = 2.85/3.15oz
1.35oz front
1.5oz rear 300m
1.8oz rear 200-600m
-Troy = 3.3oz
1.56oz front
1.76oz rear
-RoschWorks SL-1 fixed front sight with integrated 1x CR123a light: 3.3oz
-TangoDown Front Sight Flashlight Adapter FFA-01: 2oz, w/ 3oz Inforce WML = 5oz

Lights, light mounts, and accessories:
-RoschWorks SL-1 fixed front sight with integrated 1x CR123a light: 3.3oz
-Inforce APL: 2.83oz
-Inforce WML (w1x CR123a): 3oz
-Noveske keymod 1" flashlight ring mount: 1oz
-IWC/HSP 45* offset keymod light mount base w/.5oz 1" ring w/ bolts: 1.4oz
-Surefire G2X tactical (w/ 2 cr123a): 4.85oz
-Surefire scout tape switch: .75oz
-Surefire sr07 tape switch: 1.1oz

Rail and handguard attachments:
-Magpul MOE RVG: 3.3oz
-DD vertical grip: 2.7oz
-Magpul rail ladder: .375oz
-Noveske 4 slot aluminum keymod rail section: .65oz
-BCM 3" nylon keymod rail section: .45oz
-BCM 4" nylon keymod rail section: .6oz
-KAC thumb stop: .3oz
-KAC URX 4 keymod handstop: .32oz
-IWC keymod hand stop: .55oz
-BCM keymod QD vert grip: 2.8oz
-MOE 5 slot rail section: .75oz
-Noveske NSR keymod rail panel pack: 1.4oz
7 section: .55oz
single section: .07oz
single section stop: .2oz
two section stop: .25oz

-V7WS/BCM aluminum keymod QD socket: .2oz
-BCM steel keymod QD socket: .3oz
-Noveske steel keymod QD socket: .3oz
-IWC steel keymod QD socket: .3oz
-Odinworks K-pod, keymod Harris bipod mount: .8oz

Accessories:
-Harris bipod BRM: 13oz
-BFG VCAS acetal padded: 5.8oz
-IWC 2 to 1 11/4" adapter: .4oz
-IWC QD swivel: .9oz
-MI HD flush QD swivel: 1oz
-Noveske flush mount QD socket: .3oz
-IWC micro mount QD socket: .23oz

-G2 PMAG 20 (w/o .35oz dustcovers): 3.55oz
-G3 PMAG 20: 4.25oz
-G2 PMAG 30: 5oz
-G3 PMAG 30: 5.1oz
-E-MAG: 4.65oz
-PMAG 40: 6.2oz
-D&H 30 Teflon w/ Magpul follower: 4oz

Some links with part weights:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ajl2UPK0UHPsdHNVX2tBak9OS29HR2ZrRFBhUVpYMVE&hl=en

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2012/02/01/buttstock-bashfest-gearscout-finds-out-just-how-far-tough-talk-goes/

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?39599-Project-Featherweight

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?52088-AR-Parts-Weight-Chart/page4p

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?10343-Which-Bolt-Carrier

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/638524_Lightweight_Parts_List_with_WEIGHTS__AR_15_.html&page=1

http://test.ak47.net/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=625051&page=1

Thanks for posting that. Very helpful. I plan on doing something similar to yours down the road. Waiting on the BCM keymod.

Awesome carbine.

Thanks for all that info that will be helpful in future builds. Very nice AR too!

wow, you put some serious work into this thread!

VERY nice rifle too!

Awesome build. About the only place I’d differ is the optic mount.

Thank you for taking the time for the extensive write up. Whether you’re into the whole once pinching scene or not, it is undeniable that this is a well thought out rifle that oozes quality from every pore. Well done sir, this is the kind of post that makes this site great.

Thanks for the well thought out explanation. I will be using all the weights listed in a build I just started. Great ar you have built there.

Thanks for the kind words folks :slight_smile:

I am glad to be of assistance.
I updated the write-up and added some part weights and links to other pages with similar information, including project featherweight; which I should have given credit to initially for helping define the parameters of my build and giving me ideas for parts to use.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?39599-Project-Featherweight

awesome. i just weighed my novekse build to see where i could save weight if i wanted to for comparison. my lower is 38.125oz with noveske gen II chainsaw, bad cass, geissele sea, vltor imod, colt lower parts, bcm mod 1 grip, and h buffer. my upper is 79.125 oz with noveske mur upper. 14.5" low profile CHF barrel, bc1.5 pinned, 13.5"NSR, bobro t1 mount, micro t1, noveske troy buis, HSP/IWC keymod offset light mount, HSP in force light, noveske keymod sling swivel. you have, essentially, the same rifle with 21.25oz less weight as your goal

Thanks.
Sounds like a nice set-up.
The only obvious weight savings I see, which may also enhance the rifle’s handling for you, is to delete the IWC/HSP 45* offset mount and run the WML at 12 o’clock in front of the Troy (ambi, less exposure shooting over and/or around cover and concealment, etc.). That will save you almost 1oz up front, where weight matters most. Other then that, you would have to start replacing parts to drop weight and already having such a nice set up it may be better to start a dedicated lightweight build, IMO. The barrel profile offers the most weight savings since you already have a lightweight rail. Though, you could shave 1.2oz swapping to the 11" NSR from the 13.5" as well. This would also make the rifle feel lighter to handle, since the rail attachments would be closer to the center of balance.

yea. I’m not really looking to lighten it up, as it was never meant to be a “lightweight” build. i figure if you are really going lightweight you need to go all out like you have done. I’m really interested in how your upper, with the low profile gas block and NSR compares to this upper weight wise.

http://shopnoveske.com/collections/upper/products/14-5-skinny-carbine-moe-upper

im torn for my next build to go with something lightweight with just iron sights or 18" with a variable optic. but this thread is a big help for me if i decide to go that route.

im also very new to shooting. i may decide to eventually run a surefire u300 in front of a DD fixed front sight but i’ll wait till i get used to my setup a little more before deciding if i want to do that or not. i tried the HSP Inforce light in front of the flip up and it didn’t work well there.

My RMR and ADM Co-witness mount combo weighs 4.8 oz.

the T1 wins the numbers game on paper at least.

Someone does need to make a better RMR mount.

My records show I weighed the upper (w/ mil-spec port door assembly) with permed BCE 1.5, 11" NSR, Gunfighter Mod4 CH, and BCG at 3.51lbs or 56.2oz.

Now we must add 1.16oz for the MBUS front flip sight to keep it apples to apples in terms of function. Also, I am not sure if the weight listed by Noveske includes the rear MBUS Gen 2 sight, so maybe add 1.3oz for a total of 57.2oz or 58.7oz.

I have a little over 5oz on that set up (4lbs=64oz) if the rear sight is included. .9oz of that is coming from the muzzle device, 2.0oz BCE 1.5 vs. 2.9oz AAC non-mount (.1oz crush washer used to mount both) and the rest, about 4oz, must be from the lo-pro w/ 11" NSR vs. the FSB (.625 or .750?) w/ MOE handguards assuming the listed weight is accurate.

I think the skinny barrel is .750" at the gas port (edit: it is .625" dia). The Noveske lo-pro gas block weighs 1.4oz but the FSB can be shaved on that upper and cut in half the way Robb Jensen did in his thread for like .8oz less than the lo-pro, which is pretty slick way to go if one were going to get that upper and put a rail on it.

Thanks for confirming the weight. The RMR mounts have QD going for them where the lightest Micro mounts do not. Though not the lightest micro mount, the Larue Lt 751 is still 1oz lighter than the ADM RMR mount.

so i just subtracted all the stuff off of my upper to get a similar comparison.

my upper 69.125oz
1.3oz for the keymod thorntail offset
.55oz for 7 section NSR panel
.28oz for 4 single NSR panels
.3 for noveske QD keymod sling

that puts my upper at 66.695oz with the vltor mur upper, 13.5" NSR, and troy flip up sights. you say i can save another 1.2oz by going with the 11" NSR. that would put me at 65.495oz. if yours is 58.7oz, its pretty easy to see there is a pretty substantial weight difference from the barrel alone. I’m not sure how much the MUR w/forward assist or troy vs mbus is but even if thats 1oz each, there is still 5oz difference between the barrels.

sorry for the thread hijack. it just interested me that we have similar builds parts wise and i considered going more lightweight and its nice to see how the two compare. especially if others may be thinking the same thing

No worries, man…
The Noveske MUR 1A weighs 9.6oz and the standard mil-spec upper is 8.6oz ( I added the MUR1a to the list above). The Troys are on the list with the MBUS Gen 2s there is about .86oz between them.

4-5oz sounds about right for the 14.5" Skinny vs. 14.5" Light Reece barrel profiles. If I am not mistaken a Noveske-tapered-profile midlength barrel weighs 1oz more than a government profile midlength barrel, which they phrase as weighing the same as a M4 barrel that is carbine length and government profile. As far as government profiles go, midlengths are slightly lighter then carbine length gas barrels because the thiner diameter under the handguard is extended further. With that in mind, the Noveske-tapered-profile is slightly heavier than an equivalent length/gas govt. profile barrel. Usually lightweight govt profiles save about 4oz over their standard counter parts, so close to 5oz less sounds just right between your barrel and the Skinny barrel.

The two most important parts for a lightweight build are definetly the rail and then the barrel. I am saving quite a bit of weight using the Colt CAR stock aswell, but I wouldn’t recommend someone go there first because it will mess up the balance of the rifle. My carbine actually does balance well with the CAR stock with all of the other lightweight stuff combined at the front.

First, thank you for all the work you put into this thread. All the info is helpful.

I’ve been tinkering around with light (not ultra-light) builds for awhile. I completely respect what you’ve done, but my thinking is a little different with regard to a light self-defense rifle build. When I think of self-defense rifle I think of a rifle that my wife or kids could use to protect the family at home. Where I differ is that my self defense rifles must be ready to bug out leaving my tools and many other firearms at home. For this I need four rifles which are equipped using high quality standard parts which are completely interchangeable (except the forearms and barrel profiles). A spare complete bolt for each, small parts and springs, spare Sprinco buffer spring w/“H” buffer with LMT RE and a spare bolt carrier.

You’ve done a great job of identifying very reliable parts and assembling them in what appears to be a well thought out methodical build. For my uses I would not deviate away from a standard BCM BCG for an Enhanced LMT BCG, especially with a mid-length gas system. Same with the Vltor RE setup, unless I decided to keep spares specifically for that setup.

Some of the decisions you made were not related to weight. Its great that you are not only trying to build a reliable light weight rifle you are trying to stretch the performance as well.

Another point, the weight saved by using aluminum dust covers and end plates don’t come close to the weight saved with shorter lightweight barrel profiles (even 14") and shorter light weight forearms.

The T-1 is the best choice, no question. But the mount is critical. A T-1 is bomb proof, but the Fortis mount may not be. Yeah, LV had a DD rifle run over by a truck and the T-1 survived with the DD mount, but if the Fortis mount bent you wouldn’t be able to hit a barn door with it. I’d go with the DD mount for the tiny difference in weight.

Finally, my intended use and needs are a little different than yours I think, but I wonder about the efficacy of trading out proven standard parts in favor of the small potential performance and weight savings gained by using non-standard and light weight parts for anything but a project rifle. JMHO

Very well researched and planned.

This thread is a great resource for future builds.