I’ve been considering posting this thread for a long time, but kept delaying it in the hopes I’d stumble across the answer and not have to come off as such a relative newbie, but I only own one AR and don’t have buddies/class exposure to let me check out lots of other muzzle devices.
So here goes…
I’m a noise-sensitive shooter. It is by far the most problematic thing about shooting for me. Actual recoil doesn’t matter much (within reason), nor is flash a big deal, it’s report that kills me.
I wanted to ask y’all what the quietest muzzle device (for the shooter) you’ve shot is that isn’t a supressor, for a 14.5-16" barrel carbine.
Right now I’m running a standard A2 on my 16" carbine and it’s tolerable outdoors (though very unpleasant indoors). I was thinking maybe something like a Smith Vortex could lessen report even more though. What say you all?
I have doubled up my ear pro, and that’s all well and good. But I wanted to see if there was anything I could do to mitigate overall report and get more of a good thing.
Noveske kx3 perhaps.
This forum’s filled with threads demonstrating that the Flaming Pig really doesn’t do anything for you on a 14"+ barrel, so I doubt that’s the way to go (besides, the weight penalty on a 16" barrel would be intolerable).
I am using a Troy Claymore on a 11.5" barrel to help redirect some of the noise away from me. It did help on a 11.5" - I have no experience using it on a 16" rifle.
In my experience, the only way to get it quieter is to reduce the powder burning outside of the barrel and/or move the barrel farther away from you and/or direct the blast away from you/sound reflective surfaces.
A 20" barrel is alot better, a 24" barrel firing .223 is dramatically better. I have a 6724 and there is no comparison to the 6920 w/556.
Are you shooting inside/shooting lanes/under cover? Anything that is reflecting the soudwaves back in your direction will make it worse.
Keep in mind, ANYTHING, that you do that actually reduces sound signature(rather than just reflecting it downrange) COULD be taken the wrong way by certain alphabet agencies.
Sadly, there is no free lunch. The differences between various flash suppressors are so small as to be invisible, just don’t use anything advertising itself as a muzzle brake. I fought this battle vigorously on a 16 inch .308 AR-10 (brutal is the adjective that comes to mind, if fired under a roof or indoors). Here are the solutions 1) KX-3 (works amazingly well, adds about 4 extra ounces on the end of the barrel, assuming a muzzle device of some sort), 2) good hearing protection 3) flinch and bear the pain and damage (!), 4) put a 20 inch barrel on it (actually a bit lighter than a 16inch w/KX-3, more muzzle velocity, and only about 2 inches longer). There you go, an 18 inch barrel might be enough of a difference to help also and of course a .308 is a lot worse than a 5.56, so YMMV. I switch between 1 and 4 depending on my mood.
For the cost you’d be looking at modifying a weapon, see if that would get you better earpro. I have the same set of HL’s, but they’re not the best in that department.
When I run surefire earplugs under even badly worn Sordin’s I’m unable to hear a truck I’m inside - maybe get prescription earplugs and run them under muffs?
I see the earpro as a problem much more than the weapon system.
I see the earpro as a problem much more than the weapon system.
Fair enough. I’ve been seriously considering picking up some Surefires for doubling up (the plugs I have now are pretty crappy and generic) and obviously I’d love to have a pair of Soridins, but my financial situation would have to improve a bit for that to happen.
this,
if report while shooting is bothering you, I dont know if a different muzzle device will do much, i never feel the report while shooting except supine. But in general, a flash hider (A2) will come off quieter than a brake
For the muzzle device I would vote for the KX3. It doesn’t lower the report but it does direct it away from you. It was great on my 10.5" rifle.
You could also try a longer upper. The shorter you go the more violent the report.
Also better ear pro is a must. Spend once and it will last a long time. I double up with a set of disposable foams and a set of Peltors on top turned up. I can still hear whats going on but it doesn’t let anything bad in. Plus if the muffs get knocked off I won’t go deaf.
Also +1 on shooting more and in a wide open space if possible.
I think some of you are confusing “noise-sensitive” with “scared of the big boom”. I’ve been shooting all kinds of things for years. I can handle it. It’s not like I’m twitching with every shot or anything. It’s just that noise happens to be the most distracting element of shooting for me and I was looking to see if there was anything I could do to improve my current situation.
It’s not the end of the world or especially prohibitive (particularly outdoors).
While I am not noise sensitive, I’ve been playing around with the same concepts due to Massachusetts obnoxious retention of the “AW ban.” Most muzzle brakes are “side blasters,” directing pressure and vibration to the sides or rear. Some muzzle devices, which may or may not be brakes, direct the blast and sound forward. Often these are designed for full auto or CQB applications and may help avoid muzzle rise during firing, but tend to direct the recoil straight backward. Sometimes these are termed “linear” recoil compensators.
I have only seen four of these in common use, and CQBDRIVER mentions two. The others are the Noveske KX3 or “flaming pig” (really designed for short barreled [i.e., < 10" full auto] firearms) and the new BattleComp (which I have no experience with and which does have some side slots).
I have just installed a DPMS/Levang compensator, but have yet to try it out. It’s a bit of a PIA as there are no wrench flats and you really should use a strap wrench and softer crush washer, such as the YHM version rather than the DPMS version.
Midway sells them for less than the DPMS store, BTW.
I know you are looking for something that “isn’t a supressor” however, in all seriousness have you considered taking that next step into NFA land and purchasing a real suppressor? I see from your location that you are in TX and everything should be good to go there af far as NFA laws are concerned.
There are options like the OPS-INC M4S that is very reasonably priced. While it may not offer “hearing safe” sound levels it will bring down the noise of 14.5 or 16 inch AR considerably. Also it is very compact, lightweight, and did I mention cheap?
I have a good deal of experience with suppressed M4s (14.5") using the Knight’s NT4 and it makes the shooting experience much more enjoyable. YMMV and all that…
Another thing to consider is that as per the BATFE any muzzle device that reduces the sound signature of the weapon AT ALL, even by 1dB, is considered a suppressor.