Looking for advice, or confirmation of my “LZ”, regarding NOD/thermal device options. I’ll utilize pieces of the template from the “equipment section”, so I don’t squirrel… Thanks in advance for your help, if you feel so inclined!
I’m looking for a NOD or thermal device that can;
Assist me in night/low light travel (head mounted?),
Be used as a general observation device (think hunting)
Be weapon mountable to assist in taking the shot. (T1 and NV compatible NF)
I’m a civvie.
The primary usage of this item is for hunting and SHTF.
Will be used on an AR.
Will purchase from TNVC
My budget for this item is approx 4K
I’m looking for it in these colors-PINK (just kidding).
I THINK I have landed on the PVS 14, as I believe it meets the needs but please gut check me on that… I haven’t found a thermal system that meets all of these, within my price range… Would also appreciate any brain cheese (food for thought) you feel like throwing at me on this. I’ve searched/read some threads on NODs and thermal technology so I believe I understand the basic capabilities/limitations of these “systems” but I appreciate you sharing any wisdom…
PVS-14 is a great choice, sort of a standard with lots of mounting options and accessories so you can adapt it for what you need. Thermal capability is a nice-to-have but doesn’t start to work that well until you get into uber-expensive models. They also eat batteries like crazy. TNVC is definitely the way to go. If you’re even considering using it with a firearm make sure to get one that’s laser protected so you can use an IR laser.
I’ve used both the PVS-14 and the PVS-7B extensively. Though the PVS-14 mounted behind a red dot functions very well, I find that it limits your situational awareness and forces you to point a rifle at everything you want to look at. When helmet mounted, the PVS-14 only covers one eye which is not only disorienting, it doesn’t protect your other eye from catching a stick or a branch. I’m a much bigger fan of keeping my goggle on my head and using an infrared laser on my rifle. Most of the time hunting you will be looking for something to shoot at with the rare opportunity of having something to shoot, and then only for a few moments. Get a Crimson Trace infrared laser to put under your fore end and put whatever optic you want on your rifle. That way you can hunt during the day with a riflescope if you want, and when night falls, throw on your goggle and just switch on the laser when you have something to shoot. You should be able to tag anything you want to hit out to 150 yards with the laser. If you need to shoot further than that the PVS-14 behind a red dot won’t do the job either. For 200 yards plus you need a scope with a clip on thermal or a dedicated thermal sight. Priority should be getting a goggle though so you can get from point A to point B in the dark and find something to shoot.
Now that I’ve made the case for not needing to weapons mount the PVS-14, get a PVS-7B instead. It’s like going from analog to HD TV. The image isn’t any better but your brain won’t hurt after 30 minutes of seeing with one eye. When I switch from the PVS-14 to PVS-7B my brain screams THANK YOU!
The only downside of this is you can be looking right at an animal and not see it because it can blend in with the background. It’s damn expensive but clipping a TACS-M on your goggle will superimpose thermal over your green night vision image and you can’t beat it. When I walk around with one on my PVS-7B and I don’t see anything on my property, I know there’s nothing there. So get the goggle then start saving for the TACS-M. Maybe the price will come down after you save for a few years.
So, I showed the wife unit this thread last night, as a continuation of our research, and I noticed a posture bobble when she read it. I didn’t say anything at the time and approximately an hour or so later, she whisked up to the table and asked an oddly “framed” question around Hochsitz’s reply . After about a five second delay (she swears like two minutes) the hands went on the hips and the collaborator confessed to having ordered a PVS-14 about a week ago, just in time for a holiday arrival. She was so upset that she may have “messed up”… So I did what any good husband unit would do; calmed her down and explained that if she did (mess up) we’ll make it right and order the PVS-7B AND FLIR scout:)
Thank you all for your replies and advice, much appreciated!!!
YOUR WIFE BOUGHT YOU NIGHT VISION?!!! You chose wisely my friend! A lot of people buy PVS-14s because they are multi-functional but end up using it for just one thing. For the record, I’ve gut checked my experience with real “operators” and they agree with my statements above.
In case you didn’t know, the PVS-7B is great, but you still don’t have any depth perception. You’ll think you do, especially once you get used to using them, but you don’t. To get depth perception you need two tubes as in a PVS-15 or a BNVD-G and the difference is dramatic. For that you’re talking at least $7k, though you might find a used pair on Ebay for $4k. If you can’t afford them don’t look through a pair because you’ll want some. You’ll also want a $300 helmet with a counterweight in the back because the additional weight will start to cut off blood circulation to your brain and cause some neck strain.
Also, spending a little extra on a nice tube makes a difference too. I’ve been using standard gen 3 PVS-7B goggles and just got used to turning on the illuminator when I went under heavy tree cover. Then I tried a set of BNVD-G’s with the latest Pinnacle plus tube. Holy crap. No illuminator necessary. Literally a night and day difference. But heck, unless you’re trying to avoid bad guys in the woods, save your money. In an open field the deer won’t let me get within 50 yards without running away but under heavy tree cover even they can’t tell what I am. I had one deer walk towards me until she hit a fence 20 yards away. I had my illuminator going and an infrared laser the whole time but she wasn’t spooked at all. If I hadn’t had the thermal I wouldn’t have known she was there due to the brush. Rest assured, any PVS-7B is going to be impressive. Now you just need a silencer and a 300 blackout upper and you’ll be set!
Damn, I wish my wife bought me night vision. Not gonna happen, lol.
On a related note, I am also a NOD/NVG ignoramus, but I have been trying to do my research, albeit slowly. Thermal seems to have some very interesting benefits. Does anyone run helmet-mounted thermal vision? The only helmet-mounted systems are NVG (light amplification), whereas thermals tend to be either dedicated sights or handheld units. Seems to me that a helmet-mounted thermal would be more versatile than a dedicated sight and allow hands-free operation, unlike a hand-held.
She’s a keeper, always been super cool when it comes to guns/gear… Since she was quicker than I was I’ll have to see how the 14 works out for now. The funny part is if I decide to upgrade she’ll just “take over” the 14 and will be running around with it mounted on her pink Colt.
The only thing I know of is fused thermal with night vision or I^2 (pronounced “I squared”) which stands for image intensification. Thermal by itself when you have snow on the ground is almost useless for navigation because everything is the same temperature. I haven’t actually worn a dedicated thermal monocular goggle so maybe I’m full of it but I have used thermals in a variety of environments and that’s my best guess.
What I know for sure is the fused thermal solutions are bad ass. See links:
There is always a slight error in alignment of the two images due to the offset between the I^2 and thermal lenses but the rest of it is so awesome you learn to live with it.
I, as well as others I know are the exact opposite of this, including “operators.” I also don’t notice the tunnel vision as bad because my brain knows it is only using one eye. Also, when encountering a more well lit area, you have a free eye with natural night vision saved so you can use it, where as with two tubes, you have to sit for a while to adjust your eyes to the situation rather than flipping the NOD up or just closing one eye and opening the other.
Iv spent a lot of time wearing them and like the ability to switch between night vision and real vision just by closing an eye. I mounted the 14 on the left eye, so I could use the right eye for regular optics. Close right eye and aim using the peq. The real trick with the pvs 14 is knowing how to use the peq to the fullest potential. Playing with the focus for the illuminator makes target id at extended ranges possible.
In my humble opinion: I never found thermal useful and far inferior compared to real nvgs. Even the mighty crows system could have been better served with a ir lenses over a thermal lenses.
Can you elaborate on this especially the “inferior” piece? The only thermals I’ve had the opportunity to play with are our TICs in the FD… Thank you all for the continued education!!!
I used both a monocular with 1-3x zoom, the crows system, and what ever thermal cam was mounted on the front of the mrap for no light driving.
I think the perception with thermal is that you will be able to see targets using cover or concealment. In my experience this couldn’t be further from the truth. You are still looking at the world two dimensionally. Unless I seriously missed used them, I saw no appreciable benefits over nvgs. Maybe with crows it’s easier to magnify a thermal image than an ir? The absolute thing I hated most about the thermal monocular was the searing pain you experience when having white light shot into your night adapted cornea and the complete uselessness of that eye for an hour after.
Why I liked nvgs better than thermals
-much more detailed view of the world
-easier to work with
-white light (thermal) much more destructive to natural night vision
-thermal just didn’t produce any results that I couldn’t have achieved with a peq and nvgs.
So we got the TNVC PVS-14 and the mounting accoutrements, on the 24th and the quality is fantastic. I can’t find any blemishes in the image, clarity is amazing… I was really surprised when the ATPIAL-C arrived on the 26th, she snuck that in… Thanks to Eric at TNVC for all of the quality recommendations…
So, I was running around the house trying to figure some stuff out and the wife unit asks “how well you could see someone” in the house, and wanted to give it a run… So, she puts it on (downstairs) and is going to “find me” (my covert way of describing hide and seek…) upstairs. So my parting words of wisdom were; “watch yourself on the stairs”… The lights go out and I can hear her moving around and working her way up the stairs, as I’m around the corner at the top. And as she gets to about the fifth stair I hear the most subtle…“Usammmmaaaa”…“Usammmmmmaaa”. I ****ing lost it, you could have heard me laughing a block down the road.