What are the goto NV Goggles. A friend is asking ?
Any help much appreciated.
JRH Enterprises. Pay whatever it takes to get L3 filmless.
PB,
The L3/Harris Unfilmed White Phosphor BNVD are generally considered the gold standard now.
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Thanks guys anyone else?
Yes. BNVD-SG is so hot right now.
RNVGs with the best white phosphor tubes you can afford, preferably hand selected. Or DTNVS if you really want the articulation. TNVC is who I generally recommend, even though I’m not a fan of how some of their employees carry themselves online; they might be pricks, but to customers they appear to be the most consistent and trustworthy. I have also heard good things about High End Armament Technology (AKA HEAT) and Kosher Surplus. I would steer away from Steele Industries, US Night Vision, and Night Vision Inc. There are a bazillion other little shops/assemblers out there, who might do great work, or might not.
GPNVG-18s are pretty legit, they do bring serious capabilities, but the civilian available ones appear to have rather mediocre tubes, with no ability to hand-select (unless you were willing to drop the cash to buy the system yourself and then swap out all 4 tubes).
Hard pass on the PVS-31 as a civilian; their fragility and minimalistic features makes them a poor choice outside of cloning, IMO.
The problem with JRH is that you’re mostly stuck with NVD housings, which tend to be a bit less well-supported; they’re perfectly fine for most folks, I’d wager, but there’s less aftermarket accessories. That being said, if that’s not an issue, and the various NVD housings fulfill your requirements (I personally have no interest in any of their housings with the availability of the DTNVS), JRH is probably right up there with TNVC in terms of customer satisfaction.
The Boson Systems MNVG and Nocturn Industries UANVB Katana are both interesting housings, but both are yet to be widely released, so meh.
Just as an explanation, I personally chose the RNVGs with hand-selected L-3 22UAs, with an emphasis on having low equivalent background illumination (EBI). I did not see much use in articulation for myself, as I don’t plan on running around enclosed spaces a lot with the NODs flipped up, particularly in vehicles, which is where the articulation is a huge boon due to its ability to fold flatter against the helmet. Nor do I plan on often mounting a rifle with a CNVD or operating a thermal device, so having one pod up and one pod down didn’t matter to me. Instead, I preferred the simplicity and durability of the solid aluminum housing. That being said, if I absolutely wanted articulation, I would likely go with the DTNVS over the various NVD housings, due to the reported high durability of the DTNVS, the interpupillary distance (IPD) stops and better aftermarket support. I do not see much use in the big feature that the NVD housings offer that the DTNVS lacks, manual gain, due to the fact that I have high quality tubes and am running dual tubes; manual gain can be useful in monoculars to help match your unaided (or thermal) eye, or if you have poor quality tubes where excessive gain could cause issues with image quality.
Disclaimer: all my information comes mostly from reading, with some minor CQB FoF experience under NODs.
TNVC/Night Goggles, Nocturnality Gear, Presample Depot, and Licentia Arms are my go-to’s.
L3Harris PVS-31A, Elbit F5032, and AIB DTNVS are the top three bino systems. I have a few hours under PVS-31A’s and they aren’t as fragile as everyone says. Most people claiming that have never used them. Obviously, any articulating system is going to be less rugged than something like an RNVG but “fragile” is a relative term.
Gen 3 L3Harris unfilmed or Elbit YH tubes are the top performing tubes. L3Harris has a slight lead with their unfilmed technology right now.
Check out Silent Solutions (Sam at TNVC) on YouTube, Nocturnality Gear on IG, and Licentia Arms on IG/YouTube for some solid technical info.
BNVD Single gain units and Ultralight BNVD single gain units are extremely popular.
They are made in America unlike the foreign made dtn housing and they come from a company with 30 years in business, the first Night vision company to offer a 10 year warranty way back in 2014 that was later copied by others. Also NVD is ISO9001 rated.
A simple google search for failures on BNVD SG versus dtn foreign housing will show you some differences. Just be warned the BNVD Single gain is NOT the “bnvd” that flir/armasight makes, so be sure your looking at the same product.
Yes the BNVD Single gain units and Ultralights are a proprietary product from NVD. As such they are not as widely for sale as the foreign made dtn job and the PVS5 style housings like the rnvg.
Because they are a proprietary housing and only available through a small number of companies via NVD, the smaller garage builders don’t like the BNVD SG because they can’t buy just the housing and build them themselves. The other Night Vision Company pissed off NVD with some slander and so NVD won’t sell them any products like the BNVD SG. A casual look back will show that the other company previously sold and promoted that product, then pissed off the manufacturer and lost the ability to sell that product and then they touted the other product.
The BNVD Single gain and the Ultralight BNVD SG are fully articulating, extremely durable. When “researching” these things you will find a good bit of BS marketing about the need to “IPD stops” or a big screw to set your IPD. The BNVD SG and Ultralight version do not require IPD stops. The pods stay where you set them, no need for artificial aids. From that you will hear the crazy notion that IPD stops help when you need to set your pods down “one handed.” OK, that’s not a problem on the BNVD SG.
Further on IPD- so BNVDs are just like normal daytime binoculars. Let’s say a friend hands me a set of his binoculars- I simply hold them up to my eyes and move the pods to where it works for my eyes. No Algebra involved, no fuss no muss.
What if it’s incorrect? Will your brain explode?? Absolutely no. Again more BS marketing that essentially is used to push IPD stops. I actually never understood the whole drama behind this so during a 2 night class in the mountains a few years back I PURPOSELY set my IPD all jacked up on my Ultralight BNVDs and ran the 2 night class with my IPD set all wrong. Doing raids and ambushes, running up and down mountains, etc. Never had an issue. The IPD worries are drastically overrated. Your brain will NOT blow up if you don’t set yours correctly. Also with the BNVDs the pods stay where you move them- do jumping jacks, run up and down hills, etc. they are NOT going to move until you move them.
So a US made housing, with your choice of tubes ranging from lower grade XLS inexpensive tubes up to higher cost higher graded SLH High Performance tubes etc.
I’ve also been purposefully running my IPD on my nods slightly wider than the IPD on my grapes. I’m doing to push my brain’s comfort, because I found that when someone handed me a set that are wide, it would screw me up. Turns out, its fine. After like an hour, it doesn’t matter, as long as its close-ish. The two circles morph into an oval pretty quickly, for me. Can’t speak for everyone. And yeah, it stays where I put it, even jogging through the woods in full kit with a dog trying to track.
I used to really be into the aviation type binos because those were the first binos I grew up with. I won’t knock ‘em. I still have a crutch for wanting an external battery pack. Never grew out of that, since I didn’t really like 15s, and kept my 6s instead as long as I could. RNVG will require more counterweight than 6s, though.
I’m going to be the contrarian and suggest that you don’t have to necessarily spend 10k on filmless. Or even get binos.
Here’s my current setup that I’m super happy with:
Wasted a lot of time and money getting to that place. Luckily I didn’t lose any money because the panic let me sell my unused stuff without taking big losses, so at least that’s good. Tried binos, was NOT impressed. The weight savings and especially preserving your dominant eye’s night vision are massive advantages no one talks about.
Some of my buddies have saved up and gone with 14s with a good tube and a DBAL D2. Its the path I would choose if I was looking for more value from my savings. I just use mine a lot and the ol’ nerve bundle would miss stereo. A mono is much cheaper, and still quite good, though. It gets you across the capability threshold. In gun terms, a 14 is a 6920 and a UL BNVD SG is a SR15 or a proper M4A1.
When I said “spend what it takes to get L3 filmless”, I didn’t have a specific number of dollars or tubes in mind. I should have said “buy however many L3 filmless tubes you can afford and still have enough leftover for a DBAL D2 and/or TLR VIR II”. I suppose I should add that a top-shelf thin-filmed tube would also get you across the capability threshold. Falls off fast below that, though.
I would say the majority of Elbit XLSH tubes are meeting omni viii minimums. You definitely have to know the basics when shopping, but for the most part I feel pretty confident in saying that any XLSH you get from TNVC is going to generally be in that ballpark. The absolute dogshit XLSH tubes I’ve seen are all coming from those gimmicky package deal rip offs. I’ve also seen some XLSH tubes that were better than the average L3 filmless, with the only catch being a few little blems in zone 3. I would absolutely love to get my hands on one of those.
In any case, you can get a decent tube in a milspec housing with Carson glass for around 2500. I also saw on FB the other day there’s a dude selling new DBAL full power units for 1400. Can’t beat that with a stick.
Spot on. You saved me a lot of typing.
I personally don’t see the hype in articulation, so the RNVG was an easy choice, especially considering the durability advantage. After owning duals and having used single PVS14’s, I’d never choose a monocular over duals if money wasn’t an issue. RNVG is also nice as it allows you the ability to run an external battery pack if so desired, and the on board illuminator comes in handy on occasion.
I personally went through TNVC for my RNVGs. I’d done business with them in the past with good results, so it only made sense. I waited a little longer for hand select tubes and would absolutely go that route again. They were right on their estimated wait time and the specs I received were awesome.
Specs:
Tube 1: 2800 FOM (38.9 SN, .7 Halo, 72 Res, .3 EBI)
Tube 2: 2685 FOM (37.3 SN, .8 Halo, 72 Res, .5 EBI)
Of course, specs aren’t everything but a 2743.2 FOM average is insane, especially considering I didn’t pay any extra for hand select tubes. I feel like I can see the future with these things.
I’ve seen JRH mentioned many times across numerous boards with very positive reviews, so I’d consider them good to go as well. Them now being a site sponsor here is also a plus.
I’ve attempted to give Night Vision Inc. my business in the past, and the experience was absolutely terrible. Probably the worst experience I’ve had with any vendor, ever.
If you get into night vision with the mindset that $5k is your minimum starting point, then you’ll likely do alright so long as you stick with a good vendor (TNVC, JRH, etc). Where people run into problems is trying to get into the game for $1k-$3k total, only to find out the vendor lied about specs and materials, or the buyer didn’t understand the generational differences and specs, and ends up overpaying for junk.
(Also, M4C still needs a Night Vision sub forum).
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The BNVD is an excellent system; especially the UL which uses RP Optics. I believe NVD was one of the first to the game when it comes to using the lightweight RP Optics which seem to have gained a lot of popularity recently. IPD stops are a non issue as many have said. I do like having the articulating feature as it gives me more options for placement of the goggles when not actively looking through them. I’m not sure what the mentioned disparity in aftermarket support for the BNVD is because essentially every housing is proprietary but they all use the same optics (PVS 15 and 31’s excluded).
Get the best tubes you can afford in a common housing and I doubt you’ll be disappointed.
Here are bunch of links on the subject. I have added this thread as well…
We need a dedicated NV sub forum…
Just had a couple deals drop on BNVD dual tube sets that might interest some here-
BNVD no gain (what most call “auto gain”) with Photonis Echo spec Green phosphor tubes on sale at $5595.
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/BNVD-no-gain-with-Photonis-Echo-spec-GP-EchoBNVDGREEN.htm
Also WHITE Phosphor available in same model-
Best part- they are currently shipping in 1-2 weeks. No 16-30 week lead time on these.
While I would love NV Goggles, I am satisfied with my Green Phosphor PVS-14. I am a divorced Dad with 2 teenage Daughters. Money is tight. I got the best I could afford. To me, the PVS-14 I have has a great tube. Very clear, bright, no real blems that I can detect. It serves my purpose couple with a Dbal and IR illuminator.
Your family is way more important than flexing $10k. You made the right choice.
Thanks. The PVS-14 is vastly superior to the PVS-5’s, PVS-7’s and passive viewers (M1A1 Tanks) that I used while in the Army, Army Reserves and National Guard.
I want/need NV, my dog needs surgery to remove a tumor. My dog is going to get the surgery. Priorities.