Nickel Boron Bolt Carrier Battle: R Guns vs. Spike's

AR/M4 AR Technical Discussion
1

After buying an Ion Bonded Super duty bolt from Denny, I decided I wanted to mate it with a nickel boron bolt carrier for what I consider the best of both worlds. However, Spike’s doesn’t sell the carrier separately, and I wasn’t too keen on spending over $150 for just a carrier from Fail Zero. Enter R guns. They sell just the carriers, or just the bolts, and at only $70. I wasn’t too familiar with the company, so I asked them to tell me about their carriers. Well, I was told that they make their carriers in house, make them to mil spec, and stake them the proper way. They have WMD (the guys that split off from Fail Zero) coat them with the nickel boron. I wasn’t too happy about that smiley face design that they stamp on their carriers, however, and I inquired about the availability of a carrier without it. I was told that all of the carriers are stamped that way now, and that was the way it was going to be.

I wasn’t too happy about that, but I figured for $70, the price of a normal carrier, I couldn’t really go wrong.

Well, when it finally came I was very pleasantly surprised. A couple of things caught my eye. One was that the staking was VERY deep and looked like the staking on my old colt carrier. The staking was deeper then Spike’s gas key staking very well done. Also, the gas key screws were nickel boron coated as well, where as Spike’s uses regular parkerized screws. Not a huge difference, but it does match better and I thought that was a nice little touch. The smiley face was was barely visible. It was stamped so lightly, that the top portion didn’t even indent into the metal. The rest of the stamp was very lightly indented into the carrier and only noticeable upon close up inspection. It doesn’t even show up in the photos. That was truly a nice surprise!

How does the carrier and coating stack up to Spikes?

The first thing I noticed was how slick and smooth R Gun’s NiB coating was. This is the second NiB BCG I have owned from Spikes. The previous one got sold with the upper I bought it with. This newer NiB BCG from Spikes had a shinier, more polished finish than the old one I had from them. However, the R Guns finish is even slightly shinier and more polished than that. Running my fingers over each companies respective BCG, I could feel that both were very slick to the touch. The R Guns carrier was just as slick, if not slightly slicker than Spike’s. Like I said, the fact that it was a bit more polished may have been the reason for that, which you can notice in the pictures.

The Staking on the R Gun’s carrier was much deeper and better than the Spikes. I hate to reiterate this topic, but I was slightly disappointed with the staking on my current Spikes BCG. It doesn’t nearly seem deep enough. Wasn’t nearly as deep as my last carrier from them. Not sure why the staking is the way it is, if it is slipped QC, or if someone else staked these carriers for them, etc. All I can say is that I was more than impressed with the staking of the R Guns carrier. Very deep and very secure looking.

One thing that surprised me about R Gun’s carrier is that it has a lot fewer forward assist notches than a standard AR carrier. You can see that in the comparison pictures between the two of them. I don’t think this would really effect performance much, but it is interesting to note.

Test Fire: R Guns NiB carrier test fired great. It was very smooth operating, and didn’t collect much grime at all. What little it did pick up was easy to wipe off.

Final Thoughts

All in all I am more than impressed with the quality of this carrier, especially at the price point. I would whole heartily recommend this carrier and I personally think it gives up nothing to Fail Zero’s / Spike’s in fit and finish or performance. The staking of this carrier may even pull it ahead!


The two Contenders: Front R Guns, Back Spikes

From the Back: Front R Guns, Rear Spikes

Top View: Note the Staking - Botton R Guns, Top Spikes

2

have you read this ?
Robert Silvers has a great post on this
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=91507

3

You are contemplating two substandard carriers with a snake oil finish. You typed over 700 words about this.

You are concerned about things that aren’t important. Go order a Colt carrier and be done with it.

4

Neither of the carriers are substandard. The nickle boron finish is nice but not necessary. My personal feeling is that if the OP has the money to spend for it there’s no problem since it doesn’t compromise the reliability of his AR.

As for the staking…both are adequate based on the pics so the RGuns holds no advantage there by having deeper staking. deeper. Given a choice between those two I’d take the Spikes since its had the proper testing.

Thanks for the write up. Tell us more about your AR’s when you get a chance.

5

I have a spikes NiB bcg and I’m sure it’s far superior to anything by “rguns” and yes properly tested. Anyone who says spikes is substandard obviously does not have experience with the product and is totally bias, spikes has never failed me.

6

to be honest i just ran a 2 day rifle class this week and the Spikes NiB BCG STILL REQUIRES lube. i find that the coating just makes it easier to clean, but consider this keep your gun wet with a high quality lube my personal lube of choice is FrogLube or Slip2000, clean your rifle as required (you can determine that). the BCG/bolt dont have many critical surfaces that build up carbon to the point of failure of the gun because most of it just scraped and having a good lube helps in the process.

i like my spikes NiB BCG/bolt BUT i still treat it like any other standard piece of equipment which requires cleaning and PM’s

7

I wouldn’t use either of those suppliers. I agree on just ordering a OEM Colt BCG.

8

This^^^

Get a Colt or LMT BCG, then if you want shoot a $100 load on a shiny finish it’s on you. At least you will know what you are working with.

9

I’ve only been lurking on this site for a few weeks, and the elitists pushing their “battle proven” and “far superior” brands are already giving me a headache.

I’ve not had a single problem with an of my Spikes components… Idk if the NiB bcg is worth the extra money, since my standard bcg has been 100%, but its a neat concept I guess. A buddy of mine swears by his, but I’m fine with a properly maintained standard finish bcg. Only reason I could see myself buying it would be ease of cleanup and appearance, to be honest

10

This may not be the right place for you then. Some of the elitists here shoot thousands of rounds a month with their silly “battle proven” parts… some of which are backed by 40 years of R&D.

Also, when you state things like “my buddy swears by his”, who is he? What makes your buddy a subject matter expert on bolt carrier groups? We deal in facts here as opposed to “Jim-bob at the range likes his XYZ”.

11

My “Jim-bob at the range” friend is no worse than listening to forum rhetoric… considering all I said was a friend likes his NiB BCG, its irrelevant.

Some of us DON’T shoot “thousand of rounds a month”, and don’t need the most expensive gear for plinking at the range, taking an occasional carbine class, or home defense. Considering that 95% of AR shooters will never stuff them with dirt before flanking the Taliban, is it worth the extra money for a colt? Few can truly justify that, and if they can, by all means more power to them.

Some of us aren’t pushing our gear to the limits, and the OP never claimed he was. He was reviewing what he believes is a good product for the price he paid, not claiming that it will decimate the competition (including your beloved Colt).

For what I/the OP do, Spikes is great; for what you do, Colt/LMT is great… I’ll leave it at that.

12

Then you need to leave this forum and go to arfcom.

13

It is unlikely you will get approval for a sub-par part here. If it works for you great!

I have seen the lesser bolts break under low usage. The bolt/bolt carrier is on the top of my list to not cheap out on. But I guess I’m just an elitist who likes everything to work when I use it :rolleyes:

14

I don’t think the OP is seeking any Colt fans approval, nor am I… but for 95% of users, myself included, Spikes has exceeded my expectations for how “cheap” people think they are. Everyone has different needs, and at the price point you can’t beat Spikes IMO. I’m not running them to failure, and I don’t plan to. That’s my whole point, so for people to say “just buy a colt”, I think its overboard for what most people will be doing with their rifles.

Unless you are looking for the approval of forum users, that is hahaha

15

When you signed up did you read the mission statement for this site?

M4C is not for dirt clod shooters, plinkers, and people who want to justify buying shitty equipment. We’re here to discuss quality equipment not what plinkers think is acceptable to them. :rolleyes:

16

Some serious Colt leg humping…

I do have to say that the chromed BCG I have in one of my rifles is much easier to clean than the DD parkerized BCGs in the rest of my rifles.

Is the hate for the manufacturer or the coating? Like, what if BCM or Colt introduced a special coating, would it still suck?

17

Like Coltfan#1 said earlier… where are the facts? What puts Spikes in a substandard or “shitty equipment” class? And what’s wrong with plinkers and your average weekend shooter?

I was kidding at first when I mentioned “forum elitists” but now I’m starting to revert to my original claim hahaha… dear lord, I guess if you don’t have a colt or LMT I guess you should just off yourself for the good of mankind

18

Which beloved Colt part should one get? I have pony BCG’s in chrome, nickel boron, and some other coating or alloy. These coatings allow a rapid clean with a rag and less coking builds up, esp suppressed.

old news

6/10/2005
COLT DEFENSE LLC PRESS RELEASE

COLT GUNS TO USE GREASELESS TECHNOLOGY

April 11, 2005, West Hartford, CT. Colt Defense, LLC, of West Hartford, Connecticut, announced today that it has formed a strategic alliance with UCT Coatings, Inc., of Stuart, Florida. This agreement combines the worldwide leader in small arms with a company whose revolutionary coating allows small arms to operate lubrication-free.

UCT’s patented nickel boron coatings have the potential to change the way military, law enforcement and commercial weapons are built and maintained throughout the world. As a part of this alliance, UCT has granted Colt a long-term exclusive license to use this technology for the development, manufacturing and refurbishment of its globally renowned weapons systems.

Testing has shown that UCT’s technology provides parts life extension, lubrication-free operation and corrosion protection to pistols, semi-automatic rifles and machine guns.

LtGen Wm. M. Keys, President and CEO of Colt, said, “UCT’s innovative thinking and applied technology will allow us to introduce a new generation of easily maintained weapons for all elements of the small arms market, while reducing the maintenance required on existing weapons as they are upgraded during refurbishment.”

“We are excited about our new relationship with Colt, whose long history of US small arms manufacturing and reputation for quality and reliability make a perfect match with our new coating process,” said Tom Dyer, President and COO of UCT Coatings, Inc.

Colt Defense LLC, headquartered in West Hartford, CT, is the sole source supplier of M4® carbines to the US Government. Its rifles, carbines and grenade launchers command a global presence as the weapons of choice for military and law enforcement use in over 50 countries. The owner of the technical data packages for the M16™ and M4 families of weapons, Colt traces its origins back to the company founded by Samuel Colt in 1836. Over 7 million authentic M16 rifles and M4 carbines have been installed for military and law enforcement use around the world.

UCT Coatings, Inc., headquartered in Stuart, FL has developed and patented a family of performance coatings under the trade name of UltraCem® that can be applied to most metal surfaces including lighter weight metals like aluminum and titanium. This technology is applicable in Defense and Aerospace as well as Automotive, Oil & Gas and other Industrial markets. In September, 2004 UCT received a patent for the use of nodular Nickel Boron coatings as a permanent lubricant on firearms. They have trademarked the term “Greaseless Gun”.

19

I encourage some of you to re-read M4C’s mission statement. M4C is geared more towards those who actually shoot their weapons and don’t care about things that are irrelevant.

20

I never said Spikes was shitty.

The facts are here on the site which you would know if you did more reading and less posting.

Its not elitism. I don’t really care what plinkers use. Most of us are here to discuss what works and what are known good to go types of equipment. I don’t go to other sites and bad mouth their gear and we don’t want people here who are trying to justify their lower quality purchase. This isn’t the site for that.

This forum is geared to military, LEO’s, and citizen shooters who take their equipment selection a bit more seriously than the average shooter. Even those of us who are not relying on guns for duty use tend to shoot more than the average person, and equipment selection becomes more critical than what looks cool at Cabelas or whats cheapest.

If you want to talk about plinking guns or with the guys who shoot a box of ammo a year, and how great your gun is, Id suggest you find a site suitable for that. Doesn’t mean you can’t post here or cannot learn something just that the membership in general is not interested in that aspect of AR shooting. This site has a much higher ratio of active duty, vets, LEO’s, and citizens who put a lot of rounds through guns than just about any other. We have an excellent group of SME’s which take the time to share their knowledge and set the record straight on different equipment. So we’d rather have them posting than someone like you who is a plinker trying to justify their purchase and posts 2nd hand info from their Jim Bob friend who is likely also a plinker and doesn’t know the difference been the specifics of each brand. Many times on other sites people recommend things they have little experience with or guns they have ~500rds through or equipment based on fanboi like followings… Not because the equipment is actually made to a standardized specification. If BCM or Colt started selling guns made below the known specifications of what works they would stop getting recommended here and someone else would fill their shoes of “who to buy from”.

If you like Spikes or whoever else, and they fit the bill of what you need out of a gun then good for you. Plinking is not in the realm of why people come here for advice or why certain brands get recommended.